Prom 74: Saturday 10th September at 7.30 p.m. (Last Night of the Proms)

[Barbirollians]

I don't mind the Sea Songs as long as they miss out the Hornpipe, which encourages the balloon-popping and klaxons, and Home Sweet Home because people try unsuccessfully to hum along. Also I've never understood why See the Conquering Hero from Judas Maccabaeus is a Sea Song.

Without the sea songs however we get all that silliness in other pieces like in Pomp and C No 1 instead !

[salymap]

Home Sweet Home was reckoned too dangerous years ago as the unruly Prommers might throw pennies annd injure the cellist playing the solo bit. I heard Basil Cameron, the conductor that year, explain it to the orchestra. I don't know what triggered the panic about it, WHO threw that penny?

[makropulos]

Does this help? I quote the relevant bit:-

"In the following year, Glock and Davis made their first effort at reform, by deleting ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ from the ‘Last Night’ programme; but so great was the press and public outcry that in the end it had to be re-instated. In 1970, the controller and conductor attempted an alternative modification: Malcolm Arnold was commissioned to write a modern equivalent of Wood's ‘Sea Songs’, which included audience participation and the traditional hornpipe, but in 5/8 time, demanding an exceptional rhythmic facility in the stamping from the audience; but, perhaps for this reason, it did not catch on. Twelve months later, there was another new commission in the form of Malcolm Williamson's ‘instant opera’ entitled ‘The Stone Wall’; but it, too, was not a success. And in 1972 there was yet a third attempt to produce a modern substitute for the ‘Sea Songs’ in the form of a work entitled ‘Celebration’, by Gordon Crosse; yet this, also, failed to resonate with the audience in the Albert Hall or with the public beyond."

Where does that quote come from? "The Stone Wall" was far from being "not a success". It was a considerable success! And the big tune in the middle is delightful, as has already been said. Like all of Williamson's cassations, "The Stone Wall" also had quite a bit of success in schools (when I worked as a music teacher I did several of them - anyone else remember "Knights in Shining Armour" and "The Moonrakers"? - and the children loved singing them).

[Bert Coules]

Home Sweet Home was reckoned too dangerous years ago as the unruly Prommers might throw pennies...

That's very odd. In the theatre, the throwing of pennies (once a sign of approval) eventually came to signify extreme displeasure, but the concert hall has always been rather more refined, surely? It's hard to imagine even the most out of control Prom audience pelting the performers with small change, whatever it was meant to signify.

And why was it seen as a potential danger during Home Sweet Home and not any other piece?

[salymap]

Bert, do you think it was the kind of piece that street musicians played, cap for donations by their feet.?

London used to have many of these people, as you will know.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Where does that quote come from?

You can access the full text by clicking the word "this" in red in the posting.

[Bert Coules]

Bert, do you think it was the kind of piece that street musicians played, cap for donations by their feet?

Quite possibly, but it seems quite a leap to go from that association to doing the same thing at a formal concert performance of the piece, doesn't it? The Wikipedia entry on the song says that it's frequently associated with closing time at drinking establishments, which is something I hadn't come across before, but even that presumably unwelcome link strikes me as a rather far-fetched excuse for hurling coinage at a symphony orchestra.

[makropulos]

You can access the full text by clicking the word "this" in red in the posting.

Thanks, EA!
Looks like an interesting read, even if I don't agree with him about the Williamson.

[Mary Chambers]

I thought the money-throwing tradition was connected with 'Spanish Ladies' (Farewell and Adieu) rather than 'Home Sweet Home'.

[Bert Coules]

Another complication! But - again - why do that during that particular piece?

[Mary Chambers]

Another complication! But - again - why do that during that particular piece?

I vaguely thought it might be something to do with paying for past pleasures! Come to think of it, that would be a bit improper for audiences in the past. I tried to find some explanation online, but can find nothing at all about any coin-throwing traditions at the Proms.

[salymap]

I think from the laughter frommthe BBCSO and people at rehearsal it was a surprise to all of us. Mr.Cameron was a good conductor but seemed a bit of a fuss-pot. Don't know the origin but it was H.S.H.

[Chris Newman]

Strange. Home sweet Home was good enough for Donizetti to use in the Mad Scene of his opera Anna Bolena. I do not remember people throwing pennies to Joan Sutherland?

[salymap]

She would have thrown them back Chris

[PhilipT]

On those occasions when I've been in the Arena at the Last Night and we've had Home Sweet Home (I'd have to check the programmes, but the count may well be in double figures) the front row have swayed, and hummed the tune. Perhaps the traditions at other venues are different, but throwing pennies in the RAH? Never.