Prom 74: Saturday 10th September at 7.30 p.m. (Last Night of the Proms)

[Ferretfancy]

I'm another who went to the concert for the Alpine Symphony and had no time for Lang Lang, in any case feeling that the Chopin concertos are rather dull. However I found myself in the company of some new Prommers, a Korean family who had come to hear him, so I was very tactful. We had a good chat in the interval. They loved Lang Lang, but perhaps more importantly they stayed for the Alpine Symphony and were bowled over by the occasion, vowing to come back for more. The Lang Langs of this world do attract new listeners, and that must be good.
I'd rather forget the scrapyard offerings of Rebecca Saunders !

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I recall the vitriol poured upon Lang Lang at the time on the BBC board. Much of the kicking was about this facial expressions when playing. I can't think of anything less important.

[BBMmk2]

Yes, FF, that Alpine was something to die for!! Ok I do have my concerns with Lang Langnites, but, like you saaaid, as that Korean family stayed on to hear that Strauss work, more the better for their contined journey with classical music!

[Bert Coules]

I recall the vitriol poured upon Lang Lang at the time on the BBC board. Much of the kicking was about this facial expressions when playing.

Good grief, what do such people make of Julian Bream?

[Bert Coules]

I wonder how far the recorded Last Night archives go back - televison and radio - and whether anyone has ever made a serious study of the changes in behaviour over that period.

Excerpts from the second half of the 1969 Last Night were released on LP (Philips SFM 23033): the sleeve notes talk about:

...the cheering mass of mostly young and loudly vocal listeners... the affectionate chaffing of conductor, performer and officials, the stamping, cheering chorus singing and clapping - all this is now the tradition of the closing concert...

It's a long time since I played the LP but I recall a very well-behaved audience, not applauding (for example) until after the last note of the Pomp and Circumstance, and contributing to the Sea Songs in a far more disciplined (and musical) manner than we get today. How much this is due to the times and how much to the controlling hand of Colin Davis, I don't know (though I do recall Davis holding rehearsals for the audience on (and before) at least one Last Night).

Perhaps I'll play the record today...

[BBMmk2]

Tell me?

Why is is that at the Proms, its, possibly the only place where the audience claps in between movements? it was quite intolerbale, eg in The Planets Prom

[amac4165]

He did the Chopin no2 in 2009 - with the Dresden. I was completely oblivious to this until I got to the hall having only come for the Alpine Symphony. He was perfectly ok in that - rather good as I remember.

He was good in the Chopin (2009). Mind you, after that Rebecca Sauders piece...

I would have been surprised and disappointed if you hadn't quoted my original posting !

[salymap]

Morning Bert Coules. I have a CD from a Sargent Last Night in 1961. It looks much the same as usual but listed on the CD are Announcements, Request for Quiet from MS, Henry Wood Sea Songs [6 of them], etc.

I remember the main problem in those days was prommers blowing trumpets of some sort or another. Klaxons I suppose they were called. Also football rattles were often a nuisance. It did have Gina Bachhauer playing the Grieg concerto and Constance Shacklock for Rule Britannia though. It was always fairly noisy even then.

however, I don't think they clapped before the end of a work.

[Bert Coules]

Salymap, that's interesting, thanks. I'm pretty sure that I also recall an interview with Henry Wood, no less, where he talks about the Sea Songs' Hornpipe always turning into an out-of-sync race between the orchestra and the Prommers, each determined to get to the end first. But, as I said, I distinctly remember the recorded evidence showing the 1969 audience as being particularly well-behaved. I'll report back after I've played the LP.

[BudgieJane]

Why is is that at the Proms, its, possibly the only place where the audience claps in between movements? it was quite intolerbale, eg in The Planets Prom

Ignorance.

If you look around when this inter-movement applause happens, you see it is only some people in the seats and some of the day-trippers in the Arena. Those who know about these things usually do not applaud between movements.

[Chris Newman]

Tell me?

Why is is that at the Proms, its, possibly the only place where the audience claps in between movements? it was quite intolerbale, eg in The Planets Prom

In my experience it happens everywhere: The Barbican, Salisbury Cathedral, Salle Wagram. I have given up worrying about it. In his letters that little scamp Wolfgang, Amadeus Mozart, seems quite put out when it does not happen.

[BBMmk2]

Well, coming from Mozart, i am not surprised, the little scamp that he was!!

[PhilipT]

You're right too about holding hands. The clue is in the words, which make it quite plain what should happen, and when.

I completely agree. Exactly that point was well made by James Loughran in his Last Night speech in, oh, 1975 or so. If you remember, Her Majesty (a well-brought-up lady with Scottish ancestry if ever there were one) was mortified at Tony Blair getting this wrong at the Millennium celebrations. But it's hopeless to imagine we could ever persuade 5,000 or so people to do it right at the Last Night.

[mangerton]

If you remember, Her Majesty (a well-brought-up lady with Scottish ancestry if ever there were one) was mortified at Tony Blair getting this wrong at the Millennium celebrations. But it's hopeless to imagine we could ever persuade 5,000 or so people to do it right at the Last Night.

Yes, I thought about that occasion when I wrote the post you quoted from. I remember feeling quite sorry for HM, next to the clown Blair.

[Bert Coules]

I've now listened to the 1969 Last Night LP, and my memory wasn't far out: the overall impression is of considerably more controlled, more musical, audience participation than in later years. True, the trumpet call at the beginning of the Sea Songs is greeted with applause (and the BBC announcer continues to talk over both clapping and music) and the Hornpipe is accompanied by stamping and clapping, but the first (rather muted) outbreak quickly dies away, presumably at a gesture from Colin Davis. Later it's obvious that he brings in the audience, who respond with a cheer and hugely enthusiastic feet and hands. Then, in authentic Henry Wood fashion, it turns into a race: Davis and the BBC SO win by a very short beat, whereupon he launches into a really breakneck encore. The other sections are received with less noise but no less exuberance: there's humming along with There's No Place Like Home, singing elsewhere.

The fanfare that introduces Rule, Britannia is greeted with a vast (and slightly belated) cheer and followed by a massed singalong (of the chorus only, with three Nevers and shall be slaves). There had been something of a controversy about the "dropping" of the song - according to the BBC announcer, Davis gets a section of the Prommers to hold up their "Bring Back Britannia!" banner - but it was only as a separate piece complete with soloist that it was missing.

One striking thing about the Sea Songs is that there's a lot of very good-natured laughter at various points, presumably as a reaction to whatever Davis was up to. Elsewhere, the music is listened to in silence and applause held until after, or just on, the final chord of each piece. There are no air-horns, no rattles that I can hear, no exploding balloons. One person has a whistle, and blows a single short blast between two items and again during a pause in Davis's speech. But as far as noise intrusion goes, that's it.

The whole thing feels at once more relaxed and more disciplined than of late. And considerably more fun.