Prom 74: Saturday 10th September at 7.30 p.m. (Last Night of the Proms)

[amac4165]

LNOTP is one of the greatest disservices done to classical music. Many people - quite reasonably, since they haven't been, and London isn't at the end of every back garden - have the idea that the Proms are nothing but flagwaving for six weeks on end.

I think it certainly gives a bit of a false impression - but it is a double edged sword. LNOTP gets huge coverage but not quite the coverage you would really like ! You also have to remember that the BBC spends a lot of money on the proms - they have to justify that, both internally and externally. A huge "national" event (most people probably know of LNOTP) increases visibility and ticks a few boxes.

It is pity that someone didn't grasp the nettle some years and went the way of the Vienna New Year Day concert - programme a straight concert and leave all the "other" items to encores ! You could even select items to chosen form a tuba !

[Al R Gando]

I think it certainly gives a bit of a false impression - but it is a double edged sword. LNOTP gets huge coverage but not quite the coverage you would really like ! You also have to remember that the BBC spends a lot of money on the proms - they have to justify that, both internally and externally. A huge "national" event (most people probably know of LNOTP) increases visibility and ticks a few boxes.

It is pity that someone didn't grasp the nettle some years and went the way of the Vienna New Year Day concert - programme a straight concert and leave all the "other" items to encores ! You could even select items to chosen form a tuba !

That's all very true :) But then - the BBC nets quite a little pot of income from the Proms too - those seated tickets are far from cheap, and the RAH seats a great number of people.

Your point about the Vienna NYD concert is very well made - you can make a huge PR success of playing popular classics as a "shop window" for more advanced fare... but without it turning into a football crowd or a brownshirt rally! Perhaps the time has come to export all of the flagwaving bandstand favourites to Hyde Park - since you couldn't drag that further downmarket even if you had 100 Management Consultants from Brighton trying - and tidied-up the RAH Last Night so that it was something truly worthy of the rest of the season, and went out on a spectacular artistic high? I am sure that if the BBC followed their instincts and staged something like Elgar's THE APOSTLES on the last night, the RAH would be no less packed. I believe that Vladimir Jurowski is itching to conduct it, too ;)

I am sorry to see that fine performer Susan Bullock caught up in the tawdriness of LNOTP this year - a great under-use of her talents.

[David Underdown]

As has been pointed out previously on these boards, ticket income only covers about half the costs of the Proms. What the BBC have never revealed is the income they get from selling broadcast rights overseas (particularly for the Last Night), which one would imagine is not an insignificant sum.

Seeing it as a normal concert though is completely missing the point. It's an end of term party

[Al R Gando]

It's an end of term party

You've nailed the problem in one, David :)


aka "Heave-Ho!"

[mercia]

a lot of major towns and cities seem to hold their own "Last Night"-type concerts throughout the summer, in the local park, usually accompanied by fireworks, but I guess the original is still the best (if you like that sort of thing)

[ucanseetheend]

Why O Why do we no longer get the "Sea Songs" , It's not as if they take up much time?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Please will someone tell me what is wrong with the LNOTP? We have a world premiere from one of the most eminent living composers, works by Liszt, Wagner, Bartok, Britten and Chopin. A tiny proportion of the concert is taken up with audience participation - i.e. singing and a bit of flag waving. If and when this happens at other Proms, it's a different matter, and Proms in the Park really is scraping the barrel.

And I would like to see the Sea Songs reinstated (minus klaxons).

But copycat "Last Nights" just show a lack of imagination.

[Prommer]

Oh please can we stop Roger Wright's covert attempt to replace the Sea Songs' place in the running order with 'You'll never walk alone'.... Second year of this looks rather deliberate planning?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Why O Why do we no longer get the "Sea Songs" , It's not as if they take up much time?

Sorry, I missed your posting before writing mine. I wonder whether there was so much dissent when the Sea Songs were ruined by Bob Chilcott's addition of three extra bits to make the medley more representative of Britain as a whole. The trouble was that neither "All Through the Night" nor "Danny Boy" were nautical at all, though clearly the Skye Boat Song was. Furthermore, Bob Chilcott, highly skilled and respected for his choral writing, just "hadn't got it" when it came to this particular task. And it seems (and I'm only guessing) that the BBC decided to drop the whole thing rather than reinstate the Henry Wood original.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Oh please can we stop Roger Wright's covert attempt to replace the Sea Songs' place in the running order with 'You'll never walk alone'.... Second year of this looks rather deliberate planning?

How do you think the Everton supporters feel? I met one the other day with a T-shirt emblazened with the words: "I always walk alone."

A few years ago, I wrote my own Sea Songs Medley, and included "Johnny Todd" (aka Z-cars) which is Everton's tune. So I suppose that would be equally unacceptable.

[EdgeleyRob]

Please will someone tell me what is wrong with the LNOTP? We have a world premiere from one of the most eminent living composers, works by Liszt, Wagner, Bartok, Britten and Chopin. A tiny proportion of the concert is taken up with audience participation - i.e. singing and a bit of flag waving.

I will be watching as I always do (but still cringeing at the end).

[Serial_Apologist]

Please will someone tell me what is wrong with the LNOTP? We have a world premiere from one of the most eminent living composers, works by Liszt, Wagner, Bartok, Britten and Chopin. A tiny proportion of the concert is taken up with audience participation - i.e. singing and a bit of flag waving. If and when this happens at other Proms, it's a different matter, and Proms in the Park really is scraping the barrel.

And I would like to see the Sea Songs reinstated (minus klaxons).

But copycat "Last Nights" just show a lack of imagination.

Surely the point is that it is the jingoistic second half, regardless, that leaves the final impression.

[barber olly]

But THE greatest disservice is not in the RAH, but in Hyde Park.

Got it in one, and I like the seasongs as well. The Proms in the Park and the BBC's PC approach to involvement of all the costituent parts of the Union has messed up a traditional annual concert in the RAH, which can be enjoyed on TV at home, preferably with a celebration meal with friends. Usually by this date the weather has worsened as regards outdoor events anyway. Those who compare it with the Viennese New Year concert unfavorably should think again. LNOTP has a serious first half and a party in the second half. Bring back the Sea Songs and the traditional ending with the conductor saying goodnight wearing his coat and hat.

[MrGongGong]

That's not my idea of a "party"
maybe a UKIP rally (except there are usually more that 3 sad fantasists and a couple of labradors )

I'll probably listen to Max's piece then switch off as I can't stand the rest of it ,its exactly the wrong message to send out to people who might be thinking of going to other concerts........

Panic (both versions !!!) was great IMV more of that

but not the dreadful sea songs please no

I do find it funny though , the BBC trying to show how "British" it is when this is such a 1950's style English event
I'm with Serial on this
it's the final impression that sticks , so no matter what else has happened THAT's What people remember and think that Classical music is all about

[Serial_Apologist]

That's not my idea of a "party"
maybe a UKIP rally (except there are usually more that 3 sad fantasists and a couple of labradors )

I'll probably listen to Max's piece then switch off as I can't stand the rest of it ,its exactly the wrong message to send out to people who might be thinking of going to other concerts........



Panic (both versions !!!) was great IMV more of that

but not the dreadful sea songs please no

I do find it funny though , the BBC trying to show how "British" it is when this is such a 1950's style English event
I'm with Serial on this


it's the final impression that sticks , so no matter what else has happened THAT's What people remember and think that Classical music is all about

Mr GG

Paul Clarvis ("Panic") does jazz these days. You probably knew that, but just in case I see anything on with him I'll let you know.