Prom 72: Thursday 8th September at 7.30 p.m. (Sibelius, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov etc)

[bluestateprommer]

I have tried to catch up with this concert on iPlayer but they have put in the wrong tape. They are playing Zubin Mehta's Webern Passacaglia with the Ode to Joy added!

Ouch; can some kind soul contact the BBC and get this corrected ASAP?

I caught the first half live, mostly, but I want to give it another listen since I accidentally had the headphone set too low. Heard Janine J.'s encore, and I know that there was the Berlioz from the orchestra, but not sure if there was anything else. Will be interesting to hear reports from those in the RAH.

[gedsmk]

Another great night with a truly great orchestra. I also wanted to listen again to the first half because from my seat near the D Basses there was a single D Bass somewhere offstage (underneath) practising La Valse during the whole of the 1st half of the violin concerto and I wanted to check if it was picked up by the microphones as well; most disconcerting. Did anyone else in the hall notice?

[davehsug]

Well, I loved the Tchaik. I actually thought she got off to a bit of a shaky start but then hit her stride. The cadenza was perfect & the precision & feel of her playing felt just right. After the rather poor efforts of the last 2 years, this was how it should be be played. Only quibble for me listening via the TV, was that I thought the violin was a little low in the balance at times? Loveley Finlandia too, but again I thought the timps were up a bit too much. Will listen to it all again on iplayer through my headphones when I can.

[Ravensbourne]

Offstage rumblings

I also wanted to listen again to the first half because from my seat near the D Basses there was a single D Bass somewhere offstage (underneath) practising La Valse during the whole of the 1st half of the violin concerto and I wanted to check if it was picked up by the microphones as well; most disconcerting. Did anyone else in the hall notice?

I certainly did. Oddly, I thought I could hear it even in Finlandia, when all the basses seemed to be on stage.

[Ferretfancy]

A rather odd concert, I thought. I certainly don't question Janine Jensen's skill, or the splendid sound of the orchestra, but I thought it was a rather careful evening, very measured in style. The Rachmaninov had very little sense of risk, well played certainly but where was the fever, where was the spark? The best playing was in La Valse and the Berlioz encore. I think it's sometimes possible to love the sound that an orchestra makes and not notice the lack of tension, and this can mislead.

One nice moment occurred at the end when Charles Dutoit presented a bouquet to a gentleman player, explaining that he was retiring from the orchestra at the age of ninety, after fifty years with the Philadelphia - I hope I look as youthful at that age!

[Simon B]

Another great night with a truly great orchestra. I also wanted to listen again to the first half because from my seat near the D Basses there was a single D Bass somewhere offstage (underneath) practising La Valse during the whole of the 1st half of the violin concerto and I wanted to check if it was picked up by the microphones as well; most disconcerting. Did anyone else in the hall notice?

So I wasn't going mad (in stalls O) after all! I was perplexed by the same thing as noted above - I could hear this in Finlandia too. And the whole bass section was onstage at the time (unless there were 9 of them and only 8 ever onstage at any time)! The only alternative theory I can come up with is that it was a bass clarinet... In any event it was all a bit Charles Ives and very hard to ignore in the Concerto.

Overall a very serviceable concert with some superb playing, but not a season highlight really. Last of my 14 for the year, and not a bad way to go.

Let's hope that nihilistic waltzing into the abyss, Ravel style, doesn't turn out to be a metaphor for this orchestra's fate.

[Nick Armstrong]

A rather odd concert, I thought. I certainly don't question Janine Jensen's skill, or the splendid sound of the orchestra, but I thought it was a rather careful evening, very measured in style. The Rachmaninov had very little sense of risk, well played certainly but where was the fever, where was the spark? The best playing was in La Valse and the Berlioz encore. I think it's sometimes possible to love the sound that an orchestra makes and not notice the lack of tension, and this can mislead.

Entirely agree, Ferret. Enjoyable... but...

I think it may be the conductor. Dutoit seems simply to conduct (oh, ever so stylishly) on the beat with the orchestra - not leading them, but almost following them. A number of us had also been there for the Salonen/Philharmonia concert - now there is a conductor who leads, with real precision. We came out imagining how the concert would have been different had old Esa-Pekka been at the helm: I think it would have had just that spark, that fever, that tension, that we both noticed was missing, and would have lost none of the tonal beauty.

[Ventilhorn]

A rather odd concert, I thought. I certainly don't question Janine Jensen's skill, or the splendid sound of the orchestra, but I thought it was a rather careful evening, very measured in style. The Rachmaninov had very little sense of risk, well played certainly but where was the fever, where was the spark? The best playing was in La Valse and the Berlioz encore. I think it's sometimes possible to love the sound that an orchestra makes and not notice the lack of tension, and this can mislead.

Entirely agree, Ferret. Enjoyable... but...

I think it may be the conductor. Dutoit seems simply to conduct (oh, ever so stylishly) on the beat with the orchestra - not leading them, but almost following them. A number of us had also been there for the Salonen/Philharmonia concert - now there is a conductor who leads, with real precision. We came out imagining how the concert would have been different had old Esa-Pekka been at the helm: I think it would have had just that spark, that fever, that tension, that we both noticed was missing, and would have lost none of the tonal beauty.

Yes. Sadly I also agree with FF and Caliban.

For me, Finlandia lacked bite. There was nothing heroic or romantic about the performance (this could almost be described as Finland's National Anthem) and I sensed immediately that the orchestra were simply tired.
The concerto revealed the best playing from the orchestra and as far as the soloist's performance is concerned, I hope that a certain young Scottish lady, who has been peddling it around the concert halls for the last couple of years, was listening. (Say no more!)

Careful playing sums up the entire concert for me. The Rachmaninov was not a touch as exciting as a recent broadcasts by the Philharmonia and LPO(IMV)
There was no zip - no fire at all and I wonder whose idea it was to follow it with La Valse? Such programming is bound to invite listeners to draw comparisons between the two works; regardless of the fact that they were written by different composers at different times in their careers and probably for different reasons.

Shame, shame, shame! Such a once great orchestra. After the exciting performances of the Pittsburg players; such a great big let-down.

VH

[Dave2002]

A rather odd concert, I thought. I certainly don't question Janine Jensen's skill, or the splendid sound of the orchestra, but I thought it was a rather careful evening, very measured in style. The Rachmaninov had very little sense of risk, well played certainly but where was the fever, where was the spark? The best playing was in La Valse and the Berlioz encore. I think it's sometimes possible to love the sound that an orchestra makes and not notice the lack of tension, and this can mislead.

One nice moment occurred at the end when Charles Dutoit presented a bouquet to a gentleman player, explaining that he was retiring from the orchestra at the age of ninety, after fifty years with the Philadelphia - I hope I look as youthful at that age!

Ferret

Did he say that the retiring member was 90? He did say he'd been 50 years With the orchestra, so probably features on some of my LPs and CDs. He looked young enough to enjoy his retirement, though might well miss playing in such an elite ensemble.

To some extent I agree with you about the lack of thrills, but this was a terrific orchestra. They actually listen to each other, particularly the woodwind. They were great in the Tchaikovsky, with really good interchange between them and the soloist. There was also a lof of vary careful shading from most players.

The strings are just great too, though I don't think they used any of the tricks from the Stokowski era to get extra sheen on the sound - read Serebrier about this. Pity about the off stage bass practising mentioned, but I couldn't hear it from the circle.

I also thought the timpani player was superb, and fascinating to watch. I'd never realised how much timpani there is in Finlandia before- more or less continuoius. Is it difficult to play? Also, why did he have so many sticks? They were laid out a bit like the prodders and pokers at the dentist!

There was more clarity than just about any other orchestra I've heard, though partly this could be due to Charles Dutoit, who seems to favour clarity and nuances, rather than punchy attack.

I thought the dynamics were wide too, and at times Jansen went quieter than I thought most performers would dare. Apart from the inevitable coughers, and the clot right behind me who had a phone timed to go off right at the start of the Tchaikovsky, the audience were pretty quiet.

I'd put this in the top 5 orchestras, and it could very well be top. I could prefer it to the Berlin PO, but the Boston PO is very close.

[salymap]

I agree about the Tchaikovsky which was the only work I listened to. As I have remarked to a friend, I found the interaction between the soloist and the woodwind very good and hope to record the performance if/when it is broadcast again. Tchaikovsky is wonderful in almost all his music in the way passages are handed from one instrument to another and last night I heard this as never before in the violin concerto.

[NickWraight]

What a dull concert it was. Starting with a Tympani Concerto (...!) followed by a souless Tchaikovsky; the Rach Dances were aimless with no sparkle or energy but were over-lovingly coaxed along especially in the central sections of all three which became interminable. The Ravel was better but, oh dear, what happened to the ensemble all evening? "One of the world's great orchestras?": not on this evidence.

There was some splendid wind playing but the lush strings (was there a touch of Mantovani's cascading hallmark about?) destroyed much of it. The leader was audible, from the 4th row of the arena, all night desperatly trying to bring some order but failing.

[Dave2002]

Seems that a lot here thought it was dull. Pity, as I still think there was a lot to enjoy, but maybe I'm just getting old.

I agree that is a wasn't a grab your (name your bits) evening, such as might have been had in the past from conductors such as Rhodestensky and Svetlanov or Jochum with other orchestras - some of them quite rough sounding in comparison with the Philadelphia. Isn't there still enjoyment to be had from fine playing, or is the consensus now veering towards even denying that from last night's concert? If so, count me as a dissenter!

[Alison]

I much preferred the Philadelphia concert to the two Pittsburgh ones.

Music making of greater authority with much less striving for effect.

The timpani are a key part of the orchestral fabric in Finlandia IMHO and I

really enjoyed the opening item.

[Dave2002]

Alison

Where you in the hall? That timpanist was really great. I know you like (must be really careful here - this iPad keeps changing my words ... You wouldn't have wanted its suggestion) timps.

[Nick Armstrong]

there was a lot to enjoy

There was! I'm talking about quite slight increments here. I was absorbed save in the 'longueur' bits of the Rach. Nonetheless I was aware that with a bit more - not tons more - edge, it could have been really great. Agreed - great timp playing (but a couple of the woodwind weren't in the same league as the strings, the horns (no 2 ) and the trombones (awesome) ).