Prom 70: Wednesday 7th September at 7.00 p.m. (Bridge, Birtwistle, Holst)

[Ariosto]

And why should he not? Too much "I am a real classical music lover" bigotry in going on in this thread, and others seeking to tell paying audience members when not to applaud. Apart from anything else, The Planets is a suite from which individual pieces are often played alone. Get a grip, you moaning Minnies, and start concentrating on the music rather than how your fellow audience members show their appreciation for it.

Indeed!! When the Amadeus Quartet played for a well known girls school in the 1960's(?) the headmistress at the end of the concert asked her gals to give the quartet a really good dose of the Beneden Clap(p).

[johnb]

And why should he not? Too much "I am a real classical music lover" bigotry in going on in this thread, and others seeking to tell paying audience members when not to applaud. Apart from anything else, The Planets is a suite from which individual pieces are often played alone. Get a grip, you moaning Minnies, and start concentrating on the music rather than how your fellow audience members show their appreciation for it.

Perhaps you would also advocate clapping between the sections of the Missa Solemnis too. Why not - the same principal applies.

Yes movements from The Planets are often extracted and played as bleeding chunks but the work was conceived as a whole. I am usually fairly relaxed about applause at the Proms but in this instance I found the applause between almost every section infuriating. Spontaneous applause at the end of an outstanding performance of a movement is one thing but the clapping during The Planets seemed to me to be quote mindless.

(They wouldn't have dared if Colin Davis or Haitink, etc had been conducting.)

[Serial_Apologist]

That was someone fainting.

Interesting that, as the same thing happened right behind me when I heard the Planets performed at the Proms back in '66. Actually I think it was an epileptic fit on that occasion. At the time I surmised the faint was brought on by the low frequencies emitted by the organ at the conclusion to Saturn.

S-A

[prokkyshosty]

Indeed, that was the very moment that it happened. Hmm. Is it possible that the RAH organ is capable of emitting a derivation of -- and forgive me please for sullying this forum with this idea -- the infamous "brown note"?

[Nick Armstrong]

And why should he not? Too much "I am a real classical music lover" bigotry in going on in this thread, and others seeking to tell paying audience members when not to applaud. Apart from anything else, The Planets is a suite from which individual pieces are often played alone. Get a grip, you moaning Minnies, and start concentrating on the music rather than how your fellow audience members show their appreciation for it.

I hate it when you sit on the fence, Bryn

I remember someone hitting the deck like a sack of spuds (last year, I think it was) towards the end of the Tonhalle Mahler 4. I seem to recall those near him recounting that he came to instantly and valiantly declined all offered assistance until after the music had died away. A real trouper!

[Nick Armstrong]

the infamous "brown note"?

Could you recount its infamy? (If necessary in a private message... )

[prokkyshosty]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note

Entirely mythical, but nonetheless rumours exist of low frequency acoustic resonance testing by Nazis, Americans, etc. for use in sound bombs to induce, erm, nausea on the battlefield.

This organ seems to have met with more success: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1zq3n--HFI

[cavatina]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_note

Entirely mythical, but nonetheless rumours exist of low frequency acoustic resonance testing by Nazis, Americans, etc. for use in sound bombs to induce, erm, nausea on the battlefield.
:

Research into low frequencies as a component of non-lethal weaponry systems isn't a myth at all. Google RAND "non lethal technologies" for state-of-the-art DoD/DARPA research-- fascinating stuff!

[Chris Newman]

It is interesting to read of the effect of low notes on the anatomy as I have never felt lower discomfort with amplified music possibly because I have usually danced at the same time and not noticed an effect. I did feel a threatened loosening of the bowels on different occasions when I tried the "Earthquake" machine at the Science Museum. The oddest abdominal effect I occasionally feel is hearing certain bass singers in close proximity. Raimund Herincx caused this years ago whilst singing in Belshazzar's Feast at a Prom. I was pretty fit then but my guts were shaken up by the wobble induced. It next happened in 1968 when Solti conducted Verdi's Don Carlos at a Prom and I was faced by the combined forces of basses David Ward, Peter Glossop, Glynne Thomas, David Kelly and several other soloists at close range. Singing in operas myself I have been able to control it by firming the muscles, for example when Sarastro was booming at me. The most recent concert occasion was this year's BBCPO Rachmaninov Prom with Noseda when that fabulous Russian bass Alexei Tanovitski sang in Spring and The Bells (mind you, there is less to hold my belly firm these days).

[mercia]

the RAH organ

doesn't/didn't the RAH organ have a 64' stop? not sure what you hear/experience when it is drawn, probably just vibration .

[Serial_Apologist]

doesn't/didn't the RAH organ have a 64' stop? not sure what you hear/experience when it is drawn, probably just vibration .

Something that is probably akin to an earthquake is my guess.

[NickWraight]

The RAH 64ft stop (3 octaves below the lowest note on a piano), a flue as opposed to a reed, is acoustically "manufactured" from a 32ft and a 21 2/3 ft stop - a physicist will give you the science behind it! Similarly, some instrumemts have a pedal acoustic 32ft made from a 16ft and a 10 1/3ft.

I am not aware of a full length 64ft flue stop anywhere, think of the wood/metal needed to make it and you'll appreciate the cost for a sensation rather than a sound. The only 64ft reed I know of is in the Hill instrument in Sydney Town Hall and on its own occupies the far left hand side of the chamber. When drawn to underpin full organ on some notes you are aware of a broadening out of the pedal sound and a subterranean rumble. Incidentally, at one point this stop was out of tune (how one would tune it anyway I have no idea!) and sounding as a half length 128ft!!

[Serial_Apologist]

I recall experiencing that RAH organ sound as pulsating shockwaves.

From cavatina's recommended link:

"Another promising [sic] technology is high-powered acoustic generators that are used to produce infrasound (below 20 hertz and inaudible). The low frequency, high decibel sound is emitted in bands that resonate in certain body cavities, causing the disturbance of body organs, visual blurrings and nausea. These effects, becoming more severe as the decibel level increases, range from temporary discomfort that disappears after a few moments to permanent damage or lethality".

Heavy dub bass has these kinds of effects on me, as in car beatboxes - the usual alert in my case being panic. Really scary stuff, since we can't know of whether or from what source it is being used, and the deep sounds just perceptible as loudspeaker rumbles may conceal deeper sounds of the kinds described! We ignore the potentially harmful effects of sound, especially "inaudible sound".

[mercia]

thanks for your interesting post NW
wikipedia tells me that the organ in the Boardwalk Hall Auditorium, Atlantic City also has a "true" 64' stop and also a 42 2/3 ft to simulate a 128'.

[barber olly]

The Planets is a suite from which individual pieces are often played alone.

Mostly on Breakfast and CFM. Nuff said!