Prom 61: Wednesday 31st August at 7.30 p.m. (Fitkin, Beethoven)

[amac4165]

Now, I wonder who are undergoing the full body searches (Nurse the screens) tonight for a very short 66minutes of weirdly programmed music...??!!

I have my rubber gloves already warmed up !

[Ventilhorn]

But reasonable in the circumstances. Quite why the solo quartet was tucked away toward the top of the racked orchestral risers to the left of the Arena was presumably up to the conductor - bizarre - although the Arena and the seated audience towards the right would have heard them reasonably those folk on their side wouldn't. Also they were behind the percussion on the main stage floor.

Now, I wonder who are undergoing the full body searches (Nurse the screens) tonight for a very short 66minutes of weirdly programmed music...??!!

Judging by the comments so far, it might have been better if the conductor had placed the soloists backstage.

The relevance of what Beethoven and Schiller sought to accomplish, Cavatina, escapes me completely. I understand this thread to be about the merits or otherwise of a musical performance.

I really don't think that we need lectures in philosophy or the social state of the world in which we live.

VH

[Quarky]

the traditional annual Proms performance of Beethoven's Ninth, perhaps the richest, most provocative statement in the symphonic canon.

I listened to part of the final movement on my car radio, but had to switch off. It sounded like my local choral society having an off-night.

Just may be it's time for the Proms management to review its policy of works that are always performed, by tradition. There is so much wonderful music out there, and the Proms can only perform a small fraction of it. It won't harm Beethoven, Bach or Strauss if their works don't get a hearing for a few seasons.

[Nick Armstrong]

Good morning WH,

I do agree with your post wholeheartedly

Nothing sweeter than the sound of two horns in perfect harmony

Pity the Beethoven soloists don't sound to have been anywhere near that...

Fortunately, I wasn't anywhere near a radio.

[NickWraight]

Well said "Ventilhorn". Its about the music, whether heard live at the venue or broadcasted. The philosophising and past criticism over a piece are largely irrelevant.

I must take issue with "Oddball" in that it is not the programming but the artists that perform - and if the BBCSO don't buck up their ivorytower attitudes in the current economic situation they are in line to be cut. Of all the BBC orchestras they are easily the least committed on the evidence of the past Prom seasons - they can put out all the stops, the recent Mahler 6 being a good example, but all to often lacklustre, lazy, run of the mill performances are common. Their on/off relationships with conductors is well known...!

How many pieces are consciously programmed in each season by Tradition? Apart from Beethoven 9 and a few ditties on the Last Night that is it. Others are performed most years (the Rite for example) and others seem to come round often (Beethoven/Tchaikovsky/Mahler/Bruckner etc; symphonies/concertos etc insert your betes noirs) but good music will out and seats must be sold at a venue over twice the size of the RFH.

[amac4165]

How many pieces are consciously programmed in each season by Tradition? Apart from Beethoven 9 and a few ditties on the Last Night that is it. Others are performed most years (the Rite for example) and others seem to come round often (Beethoven/Tchaikovsky/Mahler/Bruckner etc; symphonies/concertos etc insert your betes noirs) but good music will out and seats must be sold at a venue over twice the size of the RFH.

LA MER

[BudgieJane]

Just may be it's time for the Proms management to review its policy of works that are always performed, by tradition. There is so much wonderful music out there, and the Proms can only perform a small fraction of it. It won't harm Beethoven, Bach or Strauss if their works don't get a hearing for a few seasons.

I agree, and I think that, for once, they should start at the top. It won't harm the queen if the national anthem is no longer played at any time during the season. They seem to have abolished it for the first night; I think they should abolish it on the last night also.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I agree, and I think that, for once, they should start at the top. It won't harm the queen if the national anthem is no longer played at any time during the season. They seem to have abolished it for the first night; I think they should abolish it on the last night also.

Oh, what a misery! I suppose, while they're at it, they should remove the bust of Sir Henry Wood too.

Personally, I think Beethoven's 9th is an incredible work. Whenever I feel low, or stressed, I know that listening to this work, with my trusty old Penguin score, will help me to achieve equillibrium by the end of the 74 minutes.

[PhilipT]

Discussion of what works should always, or indeed never, be performed is fruitless. A Promming friend, now sadly no longer with us, once collected a wishlist from other Prommers which she read out at the annual "look back at the season" session. The list began: "Please can we have more Wagner, please can we have less Wagner, please can we have more Gilbert and Sullivan, please can we have less Gilbert and Sullivan, ...".

[salymap]

Yes get rid of the lot and leave us with our memories of when the proms were the Henry Wood/BBC proms.

We've lost the Sea Songs, many of the works by Sibelius, Dvorak, Elgar. Most British composers seem to have been neglected for a preponderance of the anniversary boys. I hope Britten will be remembered in a year or two but who knows now.? There must be other British centenaries coming up.

[Chris Newman]

It was, perhaps, a Ninth with its feet in two different camps (or eras). I have heard much worse: discretion is....etc. Bravo to the choruses, John Chimes (I liked the hard sticks) and Toby Spence who threw themselves in as whole-heartedly as they should.

[BudgieJane]

Oh, what a misery! I suppose, while they're at it, they should remove the bust of Sir Henry Wood too.

Yes get rid of the lot and leave us with our memories of when the proms were the Henry Wood/BBC proms.

We've lost the Sea Songs, many of the works by Sibelius, Dvorak, Elgar. Most British composers seem to have been neglected for a preponderance of the anniversary boys. I hope Britten will be remembered in a year or two but who knows now.? There must be other British centenaries coming up.

Well, speaking as a dyed-in-the-wool front-row-of-the-arena prommer (who has been attacked in these forums for being one such), I think all this abolition of our traditions is pure rubbish. Bring back Viennese night (although I'm not sure my knees could stand all that bobbing up and down in time with the music) and Gilbert and Sullivan night!

By the way, can somebody please add a smiley for :sarcasm: to this forum, so that you can tell when I'm being deliberately : provocative:? And, yes, that post about abolishing the National Anthem was one such provocative post.

[makropulos]

Discussion of what works should always, or indeed never, be performed is fruitless. A Promming friend, now sadly no longer with us, once collected a wishlist from other Prommers which she read out at the annual "look back at the season" session. The list began: "Please can we have more Wagner, please can we have less Wagner, please can we have more Gilbert and Sullivan, please can we have less Gilbert and Sullivan, ...".

Well said, PhilipT - I think you're quite right - and that's a very nice anecdote which I'm sure accurately reflects the range of opinions among Prommers and the audience as whole. Leaves open the whole question of the Last Night programme, but perhaps we shouldn't go there...

[Serial_Apologist]

Just heard the Fitkin in its entirety for the first time on the repeat b/cast. Influences all at the relatively easy-listening pole of 20th century music - Bartok and Honegger to the forefront, even a flavour of "Egdon Heath" at the start and finish - but with genuine radicalism now taking a back seat in new music, "reculer pour mieux sauter" seems the only option left to the imaginative young composer, and although this piece might not bear much repeat listening I do think it could signal the start of a new direction with possibilities we've not seen now since the 1970s.

This much-slated Beethoven 9 seems OK to these philistine ears; the first movement is being taken at a faster pace than I'm used to, and I think I prefer that. My main problem as always with the classics is knowing all the time what is coming next, so I think I'll be off out into the sunshine, as there ain't much more guaranteed to come.

S-A