Prom 59: Monday 29th August 2011 (Hooray for Hollywood)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

But we get far more Proms concerts these days, with lunchtime Proms at the Cadogan Hall and the late-night Proms at the Albert Hall.

Not as many more as you might think. A few years ago, there were 77 "normal" proms, though I acknowledge that if you count the 4 Saturday Matinees and 8 Chamber Music Proms, that does tip the balance the other way.
But when an increasing chunk of the RAH Proms being dumbed down, this is a worrying trend.
Prom 11 (Human Planet Prom) was repeated as Prom 12. There are lots of Proms we might like to see repeated, but not that one, surely?

[zola]

QUOTE=Eine Alpensinfonie;76902]But it isn't just one prom, is it? How many barrel scraping Proms does it take to become "dumbing down"?

2, 4. 8... ?[/QUOTE]

For me, the distortion is most apparent when one considers that every one of the "novelty" proms is televised.....Human Planet, Film Music, John Wilson, Folk Prom, Spaghetti Prom, Comedy Prom, Last Night. Add to that the Simon Bolivar prom being repeated and the G Prokofiev turntable concerto and it has been pretty thin gruel for standard classical proms on tv. As a percentage of live proms it is not outrageous but as a percentage of televised proms it is closing in on 50%.

[ucanseetheend]

its "dumbing down" by the BBC, trying to be "populist" just remember BBC4 is highly likely to get the Chop

[Chris Newman]

There are quite a few unbroadcast Proms in the TV barrel. Where early evening Proms have been broadcast on TV or recorded the late night Prom has been recorded too for later use even though it is not always mentioned in the Prospectus. During the last two seasons serious and light Proms have popped up on TV after Christmas.

Anyway, when I first came to the Proms there were 55 concerts. Now there are 76 plus 8 Chamber Proms at the Cadogan Hall and the various Pre-Prom Talks and Concerts. I see nothing wrong with half a dozen bits of lighter fare. I agree with salymap and Ferretfancy. After all the Last Night is the biggest fest of vulgar dumbing down you could possibly imagine. It was that in Sir Malcolm's day and now it goes on so long many people would miss the last trains home.

[Bryn]

But it isn't just one prom, is it? How many barrel scraping Proms does it take to become "dumbing down"?

2, 4. 8... ?

Never mind, E A, I'm sure there'll be lots of gloopy massed string vibrato for you tonight.

[marvin]

Pity they don't have the pretty Julian Ovenden and Sierra Bogess singing this year. I have last year's Prom of the musicals still on my hard disc of my HDD DVD player and also copied to a DVD and still keep on watching it. I have never watched repeatedly, a classical Prom this much.
I'll watch this Hollywood Prom (recorded of course) so that I can FF through any bits that prove boring or laboured or over orchestrated.

[marvin]

Now they are really scraping the barrel.

I've given up on this year's Proms. Out of 59 to date, I can only name about five that are memorable for the right reasons.

VH

BTW: Why does this forum keep flicking me back to the top when I am penning a reply to a message - and why are we accorded such a narrow window to input our reply to a message in the first place?

What a snotty/snobby lot you all are. I used to watch and occasionally contribute to the Radio 3 message boards where s high percentage of musical bores resided but since closure (thank goodness) they've all come here. Is there no escape?

[Anna]

I'm not too proud to admit that I love the old RKO Fred & Ginger films and enjoy listening to film music occasionally (and I will be tuned in.) It may be a lighthearted Prom but so is The Last Night (in fact TLN is indescribably vulgar isn't it? Dumbing-down at its worst)

[MrGongGong]

Shame there seems to be no recognition of the great Carl Stalling who's contribution to film music is huge and is much overlooked

[ucanseetheend]

What a snotty/snobby lot you all are. I used to watch and occasionally contribute to the Radio 3 message boards where s high percentage of musical bores resided but since closure (thank goodness) they've all come here. Is there no escape?

Many Proms music lovers believe they should be overwhelmingly Classical music, they still are in the majority but are fewer every year, doesnt make us "snotty"(whatever that is), or snobs and certainly not "musical bores" . If you don't like the Proms board expressing a variety of opinions then "escape" elsewhere.

[barber olly]

Who was it said "There are only two kinds of music, good music and bad music"

Duke Ellington, I believe

I thought it was Andre Previn!

[french frank]

What a snotty/snobby lot you all are. I used to watch and occasionally contribute to the Radio 3 message boards where s high percentage of musical bores resided but since closure (thank goodness) they've all come here. Is there no escape?

It depends what you want. If you want a Radio 3 oriented forum, this seems to be it, musical bores and all. Otherwise, there's Radio 3's own offerings: their Facebook (2091 people like it currently) and Twitter pages. They're usually very positive and supportive! Far better to stay here and argue your corner, though.

I don't have much of a problem (yet!) with the number of non-classical Proms. But they are utter hypocrites in suggesting that they want to 'popularise' classical music for the uninitiated, and when they have their chance they choose the non-(least) classical Proms to broadcast on the popular TV channels.

[french frank]

I thought it was Andre Previn!

I thought it was Satchmo. And 9 million others.

[Chris Newman]

"Originally Posted by Serial_Apologist"

Who was it said "There are only two kinds of music, good music and bad music"

Duke Ellington, I believe

I thought it was Andre Previn!

The expression is attributed to many musicians. A quick Google tells me that the earliest usage I can find is actually Giaccomo Rossini:

25 February 1883, The Musical World, pg. 146, cols. 1-2:
Rossini once said to me: “I know but two kinds of music—good and bad.”

Doctor Tucker, priest-musician:
A sketch which concerns the doings and thinkings of the Rev. John Ireland Tucker ... including a brief converse about the rise and progress of church music in America,
By Christopher Wilkinson Knauff
New York, NY: A.D.F. Randolph Co.
1897
Pg. 260:
Doctor Tucker used to say that there were two kinds of music — good music and bad — and that he believed in the use of the good, at any rate for the service of God.

December 1959, Ebony, “Sayings of Satchmo” (Louis Armstonrg), pg. 86, col. 2:
On modern music vs. old-time jazz: “There’s just two kinds of music, good and bad. And: “Bop is slop.”

October 1974, Ebony, “Second Annual Ebony Black Music Poll,” pg. 59:
The late Duke Ellington contended, “there are only two kinds of music: good music and bad music.”

I would guess that the Duke said it before 1974 though.

It is also attributed to Andre Previn and Leonard Bernstein but they were a bit late off the mark.

[barber olly]

The expression is attributed to many musicians. A quick Google tells me that the earliest usage I can find is actually Giaccomo Rossini:









I would guess that the Duke said it before 1974 though.

It is also attributed to Andre Previn and Leonard Bernstein but they were a bit late off the mark.

Interesting Previn and Bernstein should have allegedly said it - two of the very few compser/conductors who have been successful in the tricky classical/jazz/popular crossover scenario.