Prom 57: Saturday 27th August 2011 (Hillborg, Mozart, Beethoven)

[makropulos]

I notice hardly anyone has commented on the pianist apart from maybe Jayne Lee Wilson and myself which really does say something.

What does it say?

She played quite beautifully. But you already said that, before slagging off the orchestra.

[Chris Newman]

Pretty duff? Oh for heaven's sake.
If so, it was certainly my kind of duff: I noted the exquisite phrasing, the lovely balance, the fine ensemble, the gorgeous woodwind playing, and the superb partnership with the soloist...

My kind of duff too. A wonderful ensemble, like Haitink and the COE, not OTT and drown out the soloist.

[Ariosto]

Macropulos, I think you have now made my point very well for me.

[cavatina]

I notice hardly anyone has commented on the pianist apart from maybe Jayne Lee Wilson and myself which really does say something.

Well, I for one agree with you about Pires a hundred percent. Like last year's Chopin performance, I was fortunate enough to have another perfect view of her hands: her unmistakable combination of an elegant precision with a crisp, intense, lightness of touch was absolutely hypnotic...unforgettable. My only regret is it was over all too soon.

[Ferretfancy]

Well, there was certainly nothing duff in the hall! A lovely performance of the Mozart and a superb Eroica. David Zinmans's recordings of the Beethoven Symphonies use a new set of editions based on the urtext, and I did spot some extra decoration, especially in the woodwinds. I really liked the lean sinewy sound with only moderate vibrato and hard sticks on the tymps. This gave the whole work a special lift. A fine evening.
Incidentally, I'm afraid that the applause between movements did originate from the Arena tonight. A sizeable group of overseas visitors from Imperial College were at their first Prom, and nobody advised them not to clap, so let's forgive shall we? Actually I was so riveted by the playing that it wasn't really a problem.

[cavatina]

Incidentally, I'm afraid that the applause between movements did originate from the Arena tonight. A sizeable group of overseas visitors from Imperial College were at their first Prom, and nobody advised them not to clap, so let's forgive shall we? Actually I was so riveted by the playing that it wasn't really a problem.

The back or middle of the Arena maybe; certainly not anyone I'd ever seen before. From my vantage point, I heard quite a bit of clapping in the side stalls.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A sizeable group of overseas visitors from Imperial College were at their first Prom, and nobody advised them not to clap, so let's forgive shall we?

It isn't the applauders who know no better who are the problem. It is the fact that no guidance is given to help members of the audience to advise when applause is more appropriate...

[Ventilhorn]

Like VH and Jayne Lee Wilson, I enjoyed this very much.

The Eroica was fascinating. Oboe ornamentation in the slow movement and solo strings at one point in the finale are certainly not in the Bärenreiter Edition (which yes, DZ uses, in common with most conductors these days - a trend started by Abbado, Mackerras, Norrington, Haitink and Zinman himself). but they were delightful touches. Some of the balance he asked for in the finale was very imaginative too, allowing the woodwind to be heard at one point in a way they seldom are - it took a bit of conductor intervention to do that, obviously, but I thought it worked.

The whole thing seemed extraordinarily refreshing as well as very enjoyable. And the choice of encore was perfect.

For me, the reaction of the audience says it all. Thunderous applause, louder and longer than any of the previous concerts that I have heard this season.

This was a prom that Sir Henry would have been proud of: a new work, acceptable to the ears if not to everyone's taste; a much loved Mozart concerto, played by a sensational pianist; and one of Beethoven's greatest symphonies, given a refreshing outing and superbly played.

In this prom season's list, Mozart's works appear only 3 times and Beethoven's 8 times. The name Franz Liszt appears on no less than 14 occasions. If this is not an imbalance in programming, I don't know what is.

VH

[Bryn]

It isn't the applauders who know no better who are the problem. It is the fact that no guidance is given to help members of the audience to advise when applause is more appropriate...

When are you uptight lot going to grasp that such applause is not a crime against humanity. It is not up to you to instruct other audience members to eschew their right to express appreciation of the music making in such an historically appropriate manner. Sure I personally thought the considerable outburst before the finale of the Eroica somewhat misplaced, but "it's only music" and the applause certainly did not disrupt my enjoyment of, or concentration on, the performance.

[salymap]

It's not being uptight, it's having the continuity of the music destroyed. It is like commencial TV where a gripping film is interrupted by a stupid advert for something. Which is why I prefer DVDs or videoes.

A short announcement pre concert, in the hall, couldn't hurt anyone and some newcomers would be spared embarrassment.

[pilamenon]

When are you uptight lot going to grasp that such applause is not a crime against humanity. It is not up to you to instruct other audience members to eschew their right to express appreciation of the music making in such an historically appropriate manner.

Absolutely. "Uptight" covers it very well - the frown, dagger look, or admonishment that such breaches of received etiquette generate from certain sections of the audience. Following salymap's advice, why don't such people stick to CDs if they cannot tolerate spontaneous outbursts of appreciation for what has just been heard, as, we are led to believe, was the case in Mozart and Beethoven's day? Why should people be made to feel "embarrassed" for showing appreciation?

[hackneyvi]

Unless you want to stand up in the hall and give a speech on the subject before the concert starts (which might work), could I suggest that the anti-entre-act applausers write to the RAH and BBC?

Are the conventions of applause different in different times and places? Who'd have thought there'd ever be applause at a funeral but at Di's do in '97, there it was. The Italians applaud between acts/movements, don't they?

I heard Mahler at the Festival Hall a few months ago and some people stood up to applaud. The chap next to me actually got up himself to try to manually force the fellow in front of him to sit down. I went to the Vortex at Dalston this week and was very impatient with noise from the audience at the back of the venue and a photographer constantly moving around the venue snapping. If she'd carried on in the second half, I'd have asked her to sit down. SA was asked at the same venue not very long ago to stop moving in this seat the music because the woman behind him found it distracting.

I am inclined to think that behaviour at gigs needs to loosen, not stiffen. But that requires some relaxation on our part as an audience and, in trade, more scrupulous observance of quiet during the playing times by others.

[Persephone]

I loved the Hillborg- am off to listen again.

[Al R Gando]

Are the conventions of applause different in different times and places? .

Indeed there are

In the C19th it was customary to applaud the different movements of a symphony. Indeed when Beethoven's symphonies were premiered, it was not unusual for other pieces of music to follow the first movement - with the subsequent movements coming later in the program. This is on record as happening with the Eroica symphony.

[BudgieJane]

A sizeable group of overseas visitors from Imperial College were at their first Prom, and nobody advised them not to clap, so let's forgive shall we?

No, let's not.

In this prom season's list, Mozart's works appear only 3 times and Beethoven's 8 times. The name Franz Liszt appears on no less than 14 occasions. If this is not an imbalance in programming, I don't know what is.

But it's a Liszt anniversary this year, and it isn't a Mozart of Beethoven anniversary.

In the C19th it was customary to applaud the different movements of a symphony. Indeed when Beethoven's symphonies were premiered, it was not unusual for other pieces of music to follow the first movement - with the subsequent movements coming later in the program. This is on record as happening with the Eroica symphony.

Indeed. But we are now in the 21st century and it is customary not to applaud the different movements of a symphony. You can go back to the nineteenth century if you like, without all the benefits of modern science etc., but I think I'll stay in the present day, thank you very much.