Prom 49: Saturday 20th August at 7.30 p.m. (Brahms/Haitink 2)

[BudgieJane]

well, I'm a traditionalist. I approve of applause between movements.

Really? Whenever I go to the South Bank, or the Barbican, there is no inter-movement applause (yes, even Tchaikovsky's Pathétique). Either I go to concerts that only non-applauders go to, or not applauding between movements is normal and the people who applaud between movements at the Proms are not your normal concert-goers.

[BudgieJane]

I think this is an instance where people avoid correct grammar because to do so would appear either sexist or clumsy.
is correct, but would appear to favour the male gender.
is not quite the way you would drop it into a conversation, though it may well be the better solution.

And the OED has accepted that "their" is a gender-neutral singular personal possesive pronoun. Seehttp://oxforddictionaries.com/defini...induF&result=1

PS Why does this messaging software mangle quotes in such a terrible way?

[Petrushka]

Two marvellous Proms only marred for me by having had some eye surgery earlier in the week, hence my sight hasn't been of the keenest! These things do tend to happen during a Proms season...

Anyway, as I say both concerts were quite superb and you can marvel again at Haitink's constant reinvention of repertoire he has conducted all his professional life. I did have to make an adjustment to my aural expectations: yes, there were times when I missed the sheer weight of tone that one expects in Brahms but that was compensated for with many usually unheard details, especially in the woodwind, coming through nicely. I normally prefer PC2 to PC1 but here I revosed that. The PC1 had tremendous power and surge and I can't wait to hear the radio/TV relays once I find time. More eye surgery this week...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And the OED has accepted that "their" is a gender-neutral singular personal possesive pronoun.

The OED is always dumbing down, pandering to sloppy usage. It is not the national treasure that it's claimed to be. "Usage is all."

[Tristan Klingsor]

I think this is an instance where people avoid correct grammar because to do so would appear either sexist or clumsy.
is correct, but would appear to favour the male gender.
is not quite the way you would drop it into a conversation, though it may well be the better solution.

Garner's Modern English Usage (Oxford University Press. 2003, pp. 320-1) affirms that 'Anyone who finds their own company intolerably boring really ought to work on developing a richer inner life' is fine grammatically.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Garner's Modern English Usage (Oxford University Press. 2003, pp. 320-1) affirms that 'Anyone who finds his own company intolerably boring really ought to work on developing a richer inner life' is fine grammatically.

It is grammatically perfect . But it might upset those who do not like the impled male dominance.

[Bryn]

Continuing this OT nonsense, a real bugbear of mine, to which I have to listen several times, most days, is:

"The buildings to the left are a fine example of Georgian architecture."

Replacing "are" with "offer" would sound so much for the better. I wonder whether Brahms, Haitink and/or Ax would concur?

[makropulos]

The OED is always dumbing down, pandering to sloppy usage. It is not the national treasure that it's claimed to be. "Usage is all."

I hope you're being ironic. Not only should the OED document a living language rather than a dead one, but "their" as a singular pronoun is nothing new and it's been acceptable usage for a very long time (more than 600 years). So to accuse the OED of dumbing down is absurd. You might not like it, but others (see next para) have been fine with it.

There are countless uses from Chaucer (see The Pardoner's Prologue) onwards, including Shakespeare ("There's not a man I meet but doth salute me, / As if I were their well-acquainted friend.", Comedy of Errors, Act 4, Sc. 3) and Thackeray ("A person can't help their birth", Vanity Fair).

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Continuing this OT nonsense, a real bugbear of mine, to which I have to listen several times, most days, is:

"The buildings to the left are a fine example of Georgian architecture."

Replacing "are" with "offer" would sound so much for the better. I wonder whether Brahms, Haitink and/or Ax would concur?

Bryn is, of course, absolutely right in drawing to our attention the fact that this is off-topic. Perhaps there are other threads, such as this one, where we can discuss usage vs. grammatical correctness.

[ucanseetheend]

Always great to see and hear a Haitink concert and what I like most is his use of the baton, masterful, no unedifying exaggeration and of course far better than this "hand flapping" which has become prevalent in last 20 years. It looks self indulgent and does nothing for great conducting , Indeed it appears to me some conductors who started with a baton switched to hands, for whatever reason

[marvin]

In retrospect and thinking more carefully about these two concerts, I do find the overall sound that the COE give in somewhat thin or attenuated in works such as these and would prefer, if I were to be fussy, something fuller in nature.
My local venue, The Fairfield Halls tend to have rather a lot of concerts given by the London Mozart Players but having attended one or two have been put off by their sound. They are to perform Schubert's Great C major symphony this autumn but somehow this doesn't seem right to me. I like larger orchestral forces although not overblown ones as often seen with the junior orchestras.

[Ferretfancy]

In retrospect and thinking more carefully about these two concerts, I do find the overall sound that the COE give in somewhat thin or attenuated in works such as these and would prefer, if I were to be fussy, something fuller in nature.
My local venue, The Fairfield Halls tend to have rather a lot of concerts given by the London Mozart Players but having attended one or two have been put off by their sound. They are to perform Schubert's Great C major symphony this autumn but somehow this doesn't seem right to me. I like larger orchestral forces although not overblown ones as often seen with the junior orchestras.

marvin,

May I ask, were you there, or were you listening at home? I realise that it was a smaller band, but it did not sound attenuated to me in the Arena, smaller in scale, yes, but the leaner approach worked to the music's advantage I thought. If you were in the hall, perhaps what you heard was affected by where you sat. I did not hear the broadcast, so I've no idea how it sounded on air. I think we can agree about the quality of the performance!

[marvin]

marvin,

May I ask, were you there, or were you listening at home? I realise that it was a smaller band, but it did not sound attenuated to me in the Arena, smaller in scale, yes, but the leaner approach worked to the music's advantage I thought. If you were in the hall, perhaps what you heard was affected by where you sat. I did not hear the broadcast, so I've no idea how it sounded on air. I think we can agree about the quality of the performance!

At home unfortunately. No, to my mind, larger symphonic works are better served by larger orchestras but obviously it's a personal preference.

[salymap]

There's an interesting interview with Ax in the 'Telegraph on Line.' The pianist states that 'you have to make a huge noise and bang in the Brahms concertos' and more about keeping the volume up to the level of the orchestra, which slightly vindicates people who thought he played too loudly and kept his foot on the sustaining pedal. It souned fine to me but I am suffering hearing probs so what do I know?

[amateur51]

There's an interesting interview with Ax in the 'Telegraph on Line.' The pianist states that 'you have to make a huge noise and bang in the Brahms concertos' and more about keeping the volume up to the level of the orchestra, which slightly vindicates people who thought he played too loudly and kept his foot on the sustaining pedal. It souned fine to me but I am suffering hearing probs so what do I know?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/m...th-a-bang.html