Prom 37: Thursday 11th August 2011 at 7.30 p.m. (Bridge, Brahms, Holst, Elgar)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Chief Guest Conductor of the BBC Philharmonic, Vassily Sinaisky, continues his exploration of less-frequented corners of the repertoire, proceeding from an invigorating British concert-opener to an uncommon yet inescapably familiar concerto.
Inspired by the fact that Bach and Beethoven arranged their own violin concertos for the keyboard, Dejan Lazić has done the same for the Brahms with engagingly idiomatic results.
Julian Lloyd Webber is an ardent champion of Holst's Invocation. The concert ends with the masterpiece that put Elgar's name on the world's musical map, with his affectionate sketches of 'friends pictured within' - a firm favourite that retains its own aura of mystery.

Bridge: Overture, 'Rebus'
Brahms arr. Lazić: 'Piano Concerto No.3' in D major (after Violin Concerto) (UK Premiere)
Holst: Invocation
Elgar: Enigma Variations

Dejan Lazić (piano)
Julian Lloyd-Webber (cello)
BBC Philharmonic
Vassily Sinaisky (conductor)

[salymap]

If someone must arrange the wonderful Brahms Violin Concerto for piano and orchestra I wish they had the decency to call it something other than Piano Concerto no 3 in D. However good it is, it is not anything but an arrangement of somethng else.

[Ventilhorn]

If someone must arrange the wonderful Brahms Violin Concerto for piano and orchestra I wish they had the decency to call it something other than Piano Concerto no 3 in D. However good it is, it is not anything but an arrangement of somethng else.

Good morning to you, Salymap


I absolutely agree with you. I have always maintained that composers should leave other's works alone. If a composer wants to do an adaption of one of his own works for another instrument or ensemble, that's fine by me - it's his copyright. (Schumann did it all the time, as did Beethoven on occasions)

Personally I abhor concertos played as piano duets (I confess I can't stand piano duets anyway, whether it be Eden and Tamir, Vronsky and Babin or Rawick and Landauer)

I shall listen to tonight's concert with interest.

My favourite conductor in charge of my favourite BBC house orchestra.

Can't wait for 7.3o this evening

VH

[Roehre]

If someone must arrange the wonderful Brahms Violin Concerto for piano and orchestra I wish they had the decency to call it something other than Piano Concerto no 3 in D. However good it is, it is not anything but an arrangement of somethng else.

I'd like to point out that Piano Concerto no 3 in D. is not how the arranger called the piece, though it obviously is meant to be that way. It's the BBC (-progamme note writer) that(/who) is to blame for this, as Lazic called the arrangement Brahms Pianoconcerto in D after the Violin concerto op.77

[mercia]

well I'm glad that Ravel didn't leave Mussorgsky's Pictures alone

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There is a difference. The piano version of Pictures cried out for the colour of the orchestra. Brahms' Violin Concerto, however, is magnificent as it is.
Not that I am not intrigued by this alternative arrangement.

[salymap]

The Brahms violin concerto seems to me the last work to be given to an intractable instrument like a piano but one can only hopefor the best.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Despite initial reservations, I find the piano writing to be idiomatic, and I'm more convinced by this than by Beethoven's piano version of his own violin concerto.

[barber olly]

If someone must arrange the wonderful Brahms Violin Concerto for piano and orchestra I wish they had the decency to call it something other than Piano Concerto no 3 in D. However good it is, it is not anything but an arrangement of somethng else.

I cmpletely agree but this idea sounds more interesting than Payne's Symphony on a few left over fragments by Elgar, which goes on too long and has no big tunes. As with the Piano version of Beethoven VC, it will turn out OK but not quite right somehow.

[Ventilhorn]

Despite initial reservations, I find the piano writing to be idiomatic, and I'm more convinced by this than by Beethoven's piano version of his own violin concerto.

Sorry, E-A but I consider this to be sheer vandalism.

If the pianist is going to harmonise his own solo line, what is the orchestra there for?

Fistfuls of wrong notes. Sounds like he's wearing chainmail gauntlets.

Bad taste. Insulting to one of Brahms greatest works.

The BBC seem to have dug out all the rubbish they can find during these opening weeks. Idiomatic? Idiotic more like.

Less than half way through the slow movement and I can take no more of this horror. I find it hard to believe that Sinaisky would allow himself to be associated with this travesty.

VH:sadface:

[makropulos]

I cmpletely agree but this idea sounds more interesting than Payne's Symphony on a few left over fragments by Elgar, which goes on too long and has no big tunes. As with the Piano version of Beethoven VC, it will turn out OK but not quite right somehow.

Actually, I think it was worse than that. Having heard the thing I thought it very much not "as with" Beethoven's own version of his VC - that, at least, has the composer's authority. This Lazic transcription had no such distinction, or indeed any distinction.

I've no idea what connection the Elgar/Payne Third Symphony (no big tune? - eh?) has with this. The Brahms VC (or Beethoven VC) are both complete and don't need any interference or reconstructive surgery by other composers. Anyway, regarding the Brahms just now, I have to say that I thought the case against messing about with this sublime piece was made convincingly. Horrible.

[salymap]

I thought cleverly done, if it must be done but the Brahms Violin concerto carries so much baggage for me.
I remember seeing and hearing Ginette Neveu play it and later when she and her brother were killed in a plane crash the BBC played excerpts all day. i heard many great violinists play it when I could go tolive concerts and tonight's arrangement couldn't get near the cadenzas and some of the passages,particularly in the middle movement. A curiosity but why do it in the proms?

[PJPJ]

Did I hear correctly? Bloch wasn't Jewish?

[jayne lee wilson]

Surprising myself somewhat (always a curious kitty about the unknown...) I was TERRIBLY uncomfortable with the Brahms arrangement. As soon as the piano entered it felt wrong, wrong, not just different.

There was the piano, grumbling and beefing away like the bad-tempered, clumsy, jealous country cousin of the sweetly gracious and passionate violin, determined to bring the dance down to his level.
The piano as Blackamoor and the winds as Petrushka (unsurprisingly rather sadder than usual), the Ballerina violin wisely keeping out of the argument.

Dear me... I kept going (just) to the end, but turned the volume well down during the choppy finale. Everywhere you look in the piece there are singing lines in the solo winds, strings, combined groups, which the violin's melodic shapes and long note-values would mirror, vary and reflect upon.
And the nature of the grand Romantic concerto, always a large-scale public statement, seems to me to present a wholly different musical concept from the fecund creativity of Bach, Vivaldi, Telemann and so on, happily rearranging their own (and sometimes each others') works for all manner of practical and musically inventive reasons.

Next few days look a bit grim (especially the Comedy Prom)... back for the Britten on Sunday; see you then!

[makropulos]

Did I hear correctly? Bloch wasn't Jewish?

Yup, I heard that too during the interval feature ... no idea where that pearl of wisdom came from.

But I greatly enjoyed Julian L-W's Holst Invocation.