Prom 33: Monday 8th August at 7.30 p.m. (Scandinavian music)

[Tevot]

I haven't yet heard the Nielsen as my i-player is playing up. I did listen to the first half and enjoyed the Sibelius very much. The Grieg I found almost throwaway / peremptory. It just didn't seem to engage me for some reason. My loss I'm sure...

The interesting thing to hear before my iplayer decided to work to rule was Sakari Oramo mentioning that there was "a strange barrier" between the auidience and Nielsen's music. This with the symphonies I'd argue is a most surprising opinion - I find them to be direct, accessible, powerful and quite haunting. Now the Clarinet concerto is perhaps a different matter Isn't there a quote saying that it sounded like music from another planet?

Re Robert Simpson (why can't some of his symphonies be programmed?) he famously changed his mind about Nielsen 6 didn't he? - writing it off initially and then later on in his life re-evaluating it. I must admit it's one of my favourites.

Here are some reviews of the concert

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/aug/09/prom33-royal-swedish-orch-oramo-review

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/proms/8691923/BBC-Proms-2011-Prom-33-Royal-Stockholm-PO-Albert-Hall-review.html

Hope my i-player hasn't been extinguished!

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Ferretfancy]

jayne lee wilson

I have been listening to Nielsen's music since first hearing the pioneering Decca LP recordings by Jensen and others back in the fifties, and I still find the fourth a challenge. Your reply to some perfectly reasonable comments by DracoM are rather typical of the rather smart arsed rejoinders that are currently polluting these boards. It's a pity we don't have to put pen to paper in longhand before clicking, it might make us all think for a moment before being snide to others. It's cheap and unnecessary.

[jayne lee wilson]

To call Nielsen's 4th, one of the greatest achievements of tightly through-composed progressive tonality, "a bit of a mess as a symphony" and then to infer from that "Nielsen never made up his mind what he was trying to do" (mind-reading a dead composer?) is not reasonable at all; it is insulting to the tradition, nourished by Radio 3 itself, of intelligent listening. And then not even to bother looking up which type of drum is in which piece, but still commenting on it?

It is a deep, passionate and life-long love of Nielsen's music that compelled me to what, as you'll see from most of my posts, was an untypically dismissive comment. Simply, don't dismiss Nielsen's artistry and inspiration without at least giving the music some time and effort. Isn't that the principle of Radio 3?

I've also written to the Gramophone editor this month to complain about the Nielsen article in the September issue, which whilst enthusiastic about the composer includes bizarre assertions about the acceptance of his music and has serious omissions in its references ( Andrew Mellor - the reviews editor - unaware of Kuchar's wonderful 2005 cycle). So you see, I spare no-one in my defense of this great man and artist.

If DracoM himself is upset by my comments - then to him, I apologise. But this messageboard has to be serious about its standards, since classical music is a civilised and civilising value, especially in this increasingly violent and dangerous world.

jayne lee wilson

I have been listening to Nielsen's music since first hearing the pioneering Decca LP recordings by Jensen and others back in the fifties, and I still find the fourth a challenge. Your reply to some perfectly reasonable comments by DracoM are rather typical of the rather smart arsed rejoinders that are currently polluting these boards. It's a pity we don't have to put pen to paper in longhand before clicking, it might make us all think for a moment before being snide to others. It's cheap and unnecessary.

[Panjandrum]

I wholeheartedly agree with JLW on this. Nielsen 4 is undoubtedly one of the great symphonies, and not just of the 20th century. Not only JLW and myself are of this view: the symphonist Robert Simpson, and the great scandinavian musicologist, Robert Layton had no hesitation in ranking it as a supreme achievement. Draco M's posts are usually a model of good sense. However, on this occasion, I think (s)he has got it spectacularly wrong. In the circumstances, JLW's response seemed remarkably restrained.

[Ferretfancy]

jayne lee wilson

Like you, I am passionate about Nielsen's music. I would like to see his symphonies performed at least as often as those of Sibelius or Shostakovich, and the Violin Concerto is another fine work that is heard too rarely. Draco M probably did not think very carefully when he made his post, I agree, but he was entitled to his view. You were also entitled to challenge his opinion in the best Radio3 manner, but I submit it was not necessary to tell him that he should go back to school.

Last night I spoke to a man who thought that Steve Reich was the greatest composer of modern times, and that Ligeti was a pigmy by comparison, an opinion that I did not share ( It was an excellent Prom, by the way ) We had a civilised discussion face to face, and that is the point. On these pages it is all too easy to hide behind anonymity and speak slightingly of others who do not meet what we see as our high standards , but that debases friendly discussion.

Bws.
Ferret ( Geoff Cutting )

[bluestateprommer]

Late to the party, as usual; this was a very enjoyable concert, heard on iPlayer from this side of the pond. I wish I could have heard Sibelius 6 live, as it's one of the two Sibelius symphonies I've never heard live (3 being the other). The Kungliga Filharmonikerna (have fun with the literal translation) and Oramo on very fine form throughout. Alice Sara Ott was OK, not particularly earth-shattering, in the Grieg Concerto, although I thought that her Liszt encore was splendid. It was also cute to hear Oramo joke about this program having music from all the Nordic countries, except Sweden; hence the encore.

PS: For ferret, I share your opinion about Reich vs. Ligeti, while certainly acknowledging Reich's importance.