Prom 29: Friday 5th August at 7.30. p.m. (Mahler 2)

[johnb]

Call me naive, but all such suggestions go over my head. But it's a true story.

I tend to be alert to nuances, I think, but the reason for your surprise eludes me so completely that I'd love you to explain, johnb! Feel free to send a private if necessary!

Apologies.

I'd better get back to taking the tablets!

[cavatina]

But Jane, I'm sure your silent page turning is exemplary

As someone who stands next to her on occasion, I can vouch for that firsthand: I never heard even the tiniest fraction of a decibel out of her. (Not to mention you'd never get away with that kind of thing on the Front Left; they'd have your head on a platter, turn you into miniature sausages, and Mother would pass you around on toothpicks at the next picnic. But I digress... ) Anyway, I always like it when Jane is next to me because it's always very convenient to be able to peek over when I feel like scoping out a dynamic marking or something.

Those were my feelings too. I know I can be accused of insufficient criticality, but it's more that I refuse to look very hard for reasons not to enjoy a performance

So do I. I probably shed tears more freely over music than anyone here--(just tonight, I wept in the Brahms, and got choked up in the Mahler. Positively cathartic.)

I think in this case, my lack of enjoyment came from the problem I have of being TOO sensitive. Everything about the way he conducted it was "turned up to eleven" and struck me as garish. Embarrassingly so, even...at times, it seemed so overblown, I winced. All the nuance and soul was blasted out of it and it came across as maudlin and cheap. Which is what I meant when I said now I understand what people who hate Mahler are hearing in it that I never could because I responded to it on an emotional level so strongly.

[gedsmk]

Ozawa /Norman Resurrection in 84?
I remember it well. I'll never forget seeing the off stage triangle player arriving just on time for the last section, ringing the triangle while running down the stairs back on to the platform. Such fun!

[BudgieJane]

Originally Posted by Ventilhorn
Full Score:" A document that clever conductors like to be seen without and posers in the audience like to be seen with.

Isn't that one from Peter Gammond's "Bluffer's Guide to Music"? A very amusing book.

Not quite. I searched through my identical twin brother's library, and came up with the 1966 edition of Gammond's Bluff Your Way in Music:

Score

1. Complete copy of the music being played that all the best soloists and conductors like to be without
2. Complete copy of the music being played that with-it members of the audience like to have

[mercia]

this has probably been discussed before and also probably ought to be on a different thread ........... but anyway ............... do we think El Sistema, which produced the Simon Bolivar, is a good thing? could it work / would it be appropriate in this country? could it prevent rioting / anti-social behaviour in London / elsewhere?

[Norfolk Born]

Sistema Scotland was established in Raploch in 2008.

[Mary Chambers]

............. do we think El Sistema, which produced the Simon Bolivar, is a good thing? could it work / would it be appropriate in this country? could it prevent rioting / anti-social behaviour in London / elsewhere?

Very much YES, to your first two questions. Not sure about the last one, though it would be wonderful to think so. I'm sure even with El Sistema there are some potential rioters in Venezuela.

Here's a blog from Tom Service from 2008. Much of it is still relevant. He's not 100% in favour.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/tomserviceblog/2008/jun/25/thenewsthatelsistema

[remdataram]

this has probably been discussed before and also probably ought to be on a different thread ........... but anyway ............... do we think El Sistema, which produced the Simon Bolivar, is a good thing? could it work / would it be appropriate in this country? could it prevent rioting / anti-social behaviour in London / elsewhere?

Yes to the first two, not so sure about the third.

Perhaps we could re-introduce National Service (for both sexes) to replace the TAVR. We'd solve unemployment issues, take the rioters off the streets, and teach respect.

WE could fund it by scrapping Trident.

Oh, a compulsory Mahler No.2 concert should be part of the National Service!

[RobertLeDiable]

Tom Service showed in his blog that he doesn't understand el sistema as it's being tried in this country. Maybe if he had visited the Raploch estate in Stirling he would have got a better idea of how it can literally change lives and improve the prospects of kids in deprived areas, even though it's 'classical' orchestral music that is the starting point - the sort of music that British kids are not supposed to be able to relate to.

[amateur51]

Tom Service showed in his blog that he doesn't understand el sistema as it's being tried in this country. Maybe if he had visited the Raploch estate in Stirling he would have got a better idea of how it can literally change lives and improve the prospects of kids in deprived areas, even though it's 'classical' orchestral music that is the starting point - the sort of music that British kids are not supposed to be able to relate to.

[Chris Newman]

Carol Vorderman argues for compulsory maths until 18. Good for her. I would go further. I believe kids should keep English, a foreign language, science, music and PE until 18. The last two because they are socialising and personal co-ordination subjects. Ok, these subjects need not continue as main subjects for all but should have an hour or so each. Both main parties are trying to extend education to 18 as (1) It helps students mature (2) Shhh...it cuts the unemployment figures (3) it partially does the job that National Service and apprenticeship (they call it internship today) did in the past.

Yes, we should have Sistema and I agree Trident could pay for these features.

Back to the thread. Cracking "Resurrection". The first movement was slower than either of my unofficial Klemperer recordings (of course, Klemps was very fast on the EMI recording) but the Dude pulled it off IMO. Lovely soloists and choir as well.

[johnb]

PE until 18 ?!?!?!?!

When I was at school I loathed PE. It was a tremendous relief when I entered the 6th form and no longer had to do it.

[Serial_Apologist]

It was PT back when I were a lad. Physical Torture.

[amateur51]

PE until 18 ?!?!?!?!

When I was at school I loathed PE. It was a tremendous relief when I entered the 6th form and no longer had to do it.

The magnificent Robert Morley, a man of similar stature to your correspondent when he was a schoolboy, used to say "Show me a man who says he enjoyed his schooldays and I'll show you a liar or a bully!"

And he liked to finish off GBS's "Those who can,do; those who can't, teach" with "and those who can't teach, teach PE!"

I like to think that we would have got on!

Around the 4th year of grammar school, the A steam got extra lessons in Latin and PE disappeared off the timetable for the year but the boys were still expected to do the annual cross-country run. I pointed out to my father that we hadn't done PE for a year & tried to persuade him that he should write a letter to my Form Master seeking to get me excused on these grounds.

My father did indeed write such a letter but beefed up the the argument by saying " The boy tells me that he doesn't have any pumps and I don't see why I should shell out for new pumps if he's only going to use them once. In addition, if the boy hasn't done any exercise for a year, should he take part in the cross-country run, I quite expect him to have a heart attack. Can you afford to take the risk?"

I was excused!

[french frank]

In England there has also been the In Harmony project - also going since 2008. It had funding for three years and I haven't heard what happens after that, or whether the funding has already been secured to continue.