Prom 29: Friday 5th August at 7.30. p.m. (Mahler 2)

[BudgieJane]

Full Score:" A document that clever conductors like to be seen without and posers in the audience like to be seen with.

So, after being a "punter", I'm a poser, now, am I? Thank you very much.

Incidentally, when they interviewed me in the interval of that prom whenever it was (time passes so quickly at the proms), they were going to ask me about reading the score while in the front row of the arena, but unfortunately Michael wittered on for almost all the available time and they didn't get round to it.

[mercia]

they were going to ask me about reading the score while in the front row of the arena

what would your answer have been (out of interest)?

[Mahlerei]

With some exceptions, you're a pretty cold-hearted lot, aren't you? Stop comparing it with performances, live or recorded, by past or even present masters. Look at it for what it was - real, impassioned, imperfect, utterly uplifting. Look at the concentration, the faces of the singers, Anna Larsson's tear-filled eyes. Hear the ecstatic response of the audience. Perhaps they aren't all experienced, perhaps they aren't thinking of Abbado and Tennstedt, but are living in the moment of real live music-making. If you remain unmoved you must be made of stone!

Oh, absolutely. Yes it was very slow and there were some balance problems but the sheer commitment of all concerned just shines through. It's a long time since I've been so - almost uncontrollably - moved by this great symphony, the singing especially splendid.

A performance to treasure.

[amac4165]

Good question -- a few people even snuck in to right in front of the screened-off sections below the gallery (the ones with the fake arches silhouetted on them), and I haven't a clue how they got there. I'm curious how packed the gallery was? How many people deep was it? Plus there must've been a loss of prime viewing space in the back where the offstage band was.

As for the Arena, there was at least one surprising pocket of space near the back, and in general it did not seem as crowded as it did the night of the Verdi Requiem. I'm curious -- knowing that they couldn't possibly get everyone in -- did they simply cap the prommers off at 1,400 even, knowing that every extra body they tried to stuff in would just make it all the more miserable for everyone else. I heard ushers the night before talking about the faints and near faints they'd seen in the last few sweaty days.

That "upper choir" always used to be sold - you access it vis a door on the second circle. There is a name on the door but i cant think what it is/was. Once the lighting rigs extended out they seemed to drop it.

The arena is no where near as full as it used to be - I was in the first 3/4 of the season queue we sat down and were never asked to stand or move forward so have been expected to be crushed turned out to be v roomy

amac

[BudgieJane]

I learned score-reading when I was at school. I have always liked to follow the score at concerts because

1. I can.
2. It allows me to judge the conductor's, the soloists' and the orchestra's interpretation of the written music. This covers errors in performance, such as wrong notes, late entries, etc., as well as decoration of the melodic line, all of which count as part of the interpretation.
3. It allows me to hear in my head the stuff that's inaudible because it's masked by other players. This applies particularly to music played on modern instruments, where woodwind lines (for example) that were perfectly audible at the first performance are now drowned out by the louder volume of modern brass instruments.
4. It allows me to hear the words, rather than a string of pseudo-random vowel sounds (difficult in the Alexander Nyevsky, for example, because I can't read Cyrillic fast enough). This is less important when the words are printed in the programme.
5. I can reread the notes and analysis I have written in the score, to better understand the music.

Note that I'm not the only person in the Arena who reads the score during a performance, but I seem to be the one that most people notice, because I'm usually in the front row.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Full Score:" A document that clever conductors like to be seen without and posers in the audience like to be seen with.

Isn't that one from Peter Gammond's "Bluffer's Guide to Music"? A very amusing book.
But I can't see the problem with following a score as a listener. It takes you eyes off the performers, but keeps your mind on the music.

Ah, J.S., you've beaten me to it. Your explanation is better than any I would have come up with.

[Mary Chambers]

I used to take scores to performances sometimes, but in the end I found reading them interfered with listening to how the performance actually sounded. I prefer now to read the score at home, before the concert (and very probably after it as well).

[cavatina]

Full Score:" A document that clever conductors like to be seen without and posers in the audience like to be seen with.
VH

If you actually met the two people in the front of the Arena who regularly carry scores with them, you'd eat your words fast enough. Although I prefer to concentrate on the hedonic, Dionysian experience of soaking up live music from the front row, I have nothing but respect for the both of them. In fact, I find them to be two of the most knowledgeable and critically astute people there. And they aren't anoraks wrapped up in it either: from what I've noticed, they're as capable of being deeply moved as anybody--more than most, now that I think of it-- and in some respects are getting the best of both worlds.

With some exceptions, you're a pretty cold-hearted lot, aren't you?... If you remain unmoved you must be made of stone!

Not necessarily.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

When I watch a Shakespeare play on a DVD, I sometimes follow the text using the subtitles. This helps me to appreciate Shakespeare's language far more than I would when just watching the actors. It's much the same with music.

[mercia]

errors in performance, such as wrong notes, late entries, etc.

were there many of those on Friday?

(tell me to buzz off if I'm annoying you with my silly questions)

[DracoM]

SIR Nicholas Kenyon on BH this a.m. was wetting himself with uncritically idolatrous enthusiasm over Dudamel. Thus the elders of the tribe lament their lost youth by failing to see its limitations.

Does he get his rose-coloured glasses at SpecSavers [ other opticians are available]

[Mahlerei]

To me, reading a score during the performance would be counter-productive, as the live occasion is as much a visual stimulant as it is an aural one. This Dudamel Prom is a case in point; reading a score would simply remind you of how it should go, and not how it is going. It didn't take long to get the measure of this performance and adjust one's antennae accordingly. Thereafter, the visuals - the fierce concentration visible in the eyes of those young players/singers and the sheer theatricality of it all - add to the overall experience. As I said earlier, a performance to treasure, if not necessarily one I'd wish to hear again, simply because it worked so well in the moment. Once the critical faculties start kicking in some of that magic is lost.

[salymap]

I haven't heard it [yet] but it strikes me that it would be a bit demoralising for a choir or orchestra to see the entire audience, or the majority of them, with their noses stuck in scores.

It works both ways I assume.

[pilamenon]

With some exceptions, you're a pretty cold-hearted lot, aren't you? Stop comparing it with performances, live or recorded, by past or even present masters. Look at it for what it was - real, impassioned, imperfect, utterly uplifting. Look at the concentration, the faces of the singers, Anna Larsson's tear-filled eyes. Hear the ecstatic response of the audience. Perhaps they aren't all experienced, perhaps they aren't thinking of Abbado and Tennstedt, but are living in the moment of real live music-making. If you remain unmoved you must be made of stone!

Well said, Mary. I was going to say something similar, but more in response to the oh so predictably patronising comments about Dudamel's age, about him somehow not being ready (mature enough?) to take on such a work. Why should he and the SBO be expected to deliver performances like Haitink or Abbado, with their lifetime's experience of Mahler and hand-picked members of the finest orchestras in Europe? I didn't go/listen to get that, I wanted something different.

[pilamenon]

It didn't take long to get the measure of this performance and adjust one's antennae accordingly. Thereafter, the visuals - the fierce concentration visible in the eyes of those young players/singers and the sheer theatricality of it all - add to the overall experience. As I said earlier, a performance to treasure, if not necessarily one I'd wish to hear again, simply because it worked so well in the moment. Once the critical faculties start kicking in some of that magic is lost.

Mahlerei, I agree totally.