Prom 29: Friday 5th August at 7.30. p.m. (Mahler 2)

[Ravensbourne]

The queue for the arena started on the steps, went all the way down Prince Consort Road, turned right at Queens Gate and had already reached Kensington Rd an hour before the performance. The gallery queue doubled back on itself on Kensington Gore to and from the RAH. I had an extra ticket so I went to the end of the queue and sold it to a very appreciative fellow who was holding a stub number in the 700s for the Gallery.

Who were the people sitting at the back of the choir seats? Were they lucky Prommers who were offered an unexpected seat, or just the chaperones of the National Youth Choir?

[prokkyshosty]

Good question -- a few people even snuck in to right in front of the screened-off sections below the gallery (the ones with the fake arches silhouetted on them), and I haven't a clue how they got there. I'm curious how packed the gallery was? How many people deep was it? Plus there must've been a loss of prime viewing space in the back where the offstage band was.

As for the Arena, there was at least one surprising pocket of space near the back, and in general it did not seem as crowded as it did the night of the Verdi Requiem. I'm curious -- knowing that they couldn't possibly get everyone in -- did they simply cap the prommers off at 1,400 even, knowing that every extra body they tried to stuff in would just make it all the more miserable for everyone else. I heard ushers the night before talking about the faints and near faints they'd seen in the last few sweaty days.

[Simon B]

Not wishing to sound facetious, I'd have thought those sat in the seats behind the choir would have been the people who bought the tickets for them when they originally went on sale.

Where the choirs will be located (in all or part of the choir stalls, on the stage, some mixture of both) is worked out in advance knowing how many choristers there will be. The seats in the choir stalls are put on sale accordingly.

As far as numbers allowed into standing places go, the limitation is a legal matter - determined by fire regulations, evacuation times etc. I seem to recall that prior to the refurbishment of a few years ago, the RAH effectively had an exemption from the LFB that meant it was allowed to operate with a capacity it wouldn't have been possible to evacuate fast enough to meet contemporary standards. This, thankfully is no longer the case. Though it should be stated that all of this might have been urban myth...

Going by the ridiculous length of the remaining queues when I arrived at 19:10 I find it hard to believe people weren't turned away last night. If it was the piece rather than performers they were interested in I'm not convinced they missed all that much - but it probably wasn't as such!

[Nick Armstrong]

I was present last night, sitting in the side stalls and feel that both RoberLeDiable in #51 and pilamon in #55 sum up the experience well. A friend of mine, also present, went so far as to describe the performance as "dull". I wouldn't go that far, but there were certainly almost painfully slow moments, where Dudamel seemed to be saying, for example, "Listen to how slowly and quietly I can get those fourteen double basses to play". However, despite all the justified interpretative misgivings, for me the sheer sense of occasion triumphed. The big moments were superbly carried off and the choir was excellent. I look forward to assessing the recorded performance in surround sound tonight on BBC2.

Interesting to read the accounts of those who were present. Sounds as if the sense of occasion certainly triumphed with this Guardian reviewer too (but is that what such reviews should be about?): http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011...chestra-review

EDIT: And this one: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...n-2333056.html ..."the air was filled with a rending sense of urgency..." Really?

[Serial_Apologist]

Interesting to read the accounts of those who were present. Sounds as if the sense of occasion certainly triumphed with this Guardian reviewer too (but is that what such reviews should be about?): http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011...chestra-review

EDIT: And this one: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...n-2333056.html ..."the air was filled with a rending sense of urgency..." Really?

Rending unto Mahler what is Mahler's, and unto Prom audience what is Prom audience's, maybe he was saying...

[Richard J.]

..."the air was filled with a rending sense of urgency..." Really?

Yes, really, at the start of the symphony, which is what he was describing. It had me on the edge of my seat straight away. I agree with the comments about slow tempi later, and I found some of the pianissimos virtually inaudible on the other side of the hall (box 46, 2nd Tier). But overall it was a fantastic occasion.

I was in the hall for the previous two Proms performances of Mahler 2 (Rattle with the Vienna Phil in 1999 and Haitink in 2006). While this one didn't have the architectural vision to match those, it was certainly for me a hugely thrilling performance. And Dudamel is still only 30!

In answer to an earlier query which I don't think was answered, no, there was no encore. Some of the audience kept on clapping until the last member of the orchestra and chorus had left the stage.

[BetweenTheStaves]

..... Some of the audience kept on clapping until the last member of the orchestra and chorus had left the stage.

Whilst not wanting to detract too much from his ability, I am 100% behind Mr Devil who summed it up very succinctly. I can't help but wonder how much the rapturous applause was because it 'was Dudamel' with all the hype or just the sheer joy of hearing this superb piece of music for the first time. I have a sneaking feeling that for many it was the former.

[RobertLeDiable]

A poster mentioned earlier that Dudamel has said his interpretation is still 'developing'. But that's my point: there was a time when a talented young conductor (and his management) would have felt it best to keep away from the limelight with the big peaks of the repertoire, developing their interpretations through several performances over a lengthy period in relatively out of the way places. But the most hyped 20-something conductors today are found jobs with top orchestras and given concerts in the most prestigious festivals conducting these pieces well before they're ready. They're backed up by clever PR and that helps to sell shedloads of tickets. Pity about the music. If Dudamel was only doing this sort of thing with his Venezuelan band, one could accept it I suppose.

Mind you, Rattle was conducting a far more convincing Mahler 2 long before Dudamel reached his present age.

[Anna]

I didn't hear this last night as I was out watching a Male Voice Choir! (And how are the Tenors in Dowlais? You may well ask) Having read the posts here, and not really knowing Mahler at all I probably won't be disappointed as it'll be the first Second for me and I wouldn't know a slow tempi in various passages as it's all going to be new to me! Exciting isn't it?

[johnb]

.... there was a time when a talented young conductor (and his management) would have felt it best to keep away from the limelight with the big peaks of the repertoire, developing their interpretations through several performances over a lengthy period in relatively out of the way places. But the most hyped 20-something conductors today are found jobs with top orchestras and given concerts in the most prestigious festivals conducting these pieces well before they're ready....

A similar thought is expressed by Haitink in an interview in this weekend's RT:

Haitink rails against the speed with which young conductors are pushed into big careers in today's music industry. Short tenures, over-ambitious appointments, too many tours, too much bombardment with sound, too much haste to perform repertoire more suited to older interpreters - Haitink sees all these things as perils of a world that has accelerated too much too soon.

[makropulos]

A similar thought is expressed by Haitink in an interview in this weekend's RT:

johnb: many thanks for the pointer to the Haitink interview. These sound like truly wise words.

[Roehre]

johnb: many thanks for the pointer to the Haitink interview. These sound like truly wise words.

Haitink himself finds his own career -becoming the Concertgebouw's prime conductor in 1961, aged 31 at the time of his appointment (though between 1961 and 1964 he was "shadowed" by Eugen Jochum)- to have been rocketed too early. Too much responsibility on his shoulders too early, musically, but also as manager.

[makropulos]

Haitink himself finds his own career -becoming the Concertgebouw's prime conductor in 1961, aged 31 at the time of his appointment (though between 1961 and 1964 he was "shadowed" by Eugen Jochum)- to have been rocketed too early. Too much responsibility on his shoulders too early, musically, but also as manager.

Right - that's an important point, especially as Haitink is someone who takes music directorships very seriously, so the management issues matter. Now I really must read this interview :)

[johnb]

Haitink himself finds his own career -becoming the Concertgebouw's prime conductor in 1961, aged 31 at the time of his appointment (though between 1961 and 1964 he was "shadowed" by Eugen Jochum)- to have been rocketed too early. Too much responsibility on his shoulders too early, musically, but also as manager.

As you imply - he acknowledges this in the interview. I had included the relevant para but I think I might be infringing the FT terms and conditions so I have removed it.

I think you need to register to view the FT website, but the article is: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/b505f5be-b...#axzz1UHRlAo9b

[Nick Armstrong]

Anyone noticed how Dudamel's stick technique is an almost exact carbon copy of Claudio Abbado's? The baton pivoting between the thumb and middle finger of the right hand, the left hand held open, fingers slightly apart, used to sweep or point in just the same manner. I noticed it at the two residency concerts at the RFH in 2009, but had forgotten how similar his technique is.