Prom 29: Friday 5th August at 7.30. p.m. (Mahler 2)

[Simon B]

No encore thankfully. That would be ludicrous. What is there to say after Mahler 2? The applause went on and on and on though. Rather matched Dudamel's bizarre interpretation. What playing (and singing) though. Worth going along just for Anna Larsson (spelling?) and the SBYO brass...

[Mary Chambers]

I wonder what it feels like to sing in this work when you're a teenager? I was well past youth choir age when I first did it, and it knocked me for six. I can't imagine what it would have been like at 16. I don't think I'd ever have recovered - not sure I ever have anyway!

For me it always works, and I was moved as ever by tonight's performance. Looking forward to seeing it on television tomorrow.

[makropulos]

Well I'm probably fortunate in not expecting a great performance when I live concert - if it happens to be one then that's wonderful, of course.

We are so used to listening to our favourite greatest performance on CD that we sometimes forget that live music making is quite different to studio recorded CDs with their multiple takes and numerous patches.

In my case, "we" aren't forgetting that- what came to mind was the numerous live performances I've experienced of this work over the years, including Bernstein, Kempe, Krips, Tennstedt, Tilson Thomas, Abbado, Haitink, Boulez and others - nearly always unforgettable occasions. It wasn't the quality of the playing or the singing that was in any way problematic tonight - far from it as the orchestra was superb and so were the soloists and choir - but I did have issues with Dudamel's pacing of the piece which seemed to stretch things about as far as they can be stretched (and maybe beyond).

[makropulos]

I wonder what it feels like to sing in this work when you're a teenager? I was well past youth choir age when I first did it, and it knocked me for six. I can't imagine what it would have been like at 16. I don't think I'd ever have recovered - not sure I ever have anyway!

For me it always works, and I was moved as ever by tonight's performance. Looking forward to seeing it on television tomorrow.

Mary - I know just what you mean. I sang it when I was 17 (in Lansing College Chapel on a summer music course) and yes, it was an absolutely phenomenal experience - and that was the year I also sang Gerontius for the first time, as part of a multi-school choir thing in Thaxted parish church. Rather a good year.

[johnb]

Fine, but we all know that Dudamel isn't a Bernstein or a Kempe or a Tennstedt, or an Abbado or a Haitink or a Boulez! Let's be realistic in our expectations.

[Bryn]

And he's certainly no Norrington.

[makropulos]

And he's certainly no Norrington.

Somehow I thought you might say that, Bryn :)

[kernelbogey]

[...] what came to mind was the numerous live performances I've experienced of this work over the years, including Bernstein, Kempe, Krips, Tennstedt, Tilson Thomas, Abbado, Haitink, Boulez and others - nearly always unforgettable occasions.[...]

For me my most memorable live performance was Maazel - I think in the Albert Hall, but not a Prom, probably early eighties..? I think the greatness of the work, its capacity to stir us deeply, is the combination of musically expressed anguish and the hope of 'resurrection' - whatever that might mean to us personally. Mahler wrote the words of the last movement himself, and they always speak to me. As I said on the old boards (I think about Mahler 9) it is as though his music prefigured the Holocaust of the twentieth century - it's impossible to ignore his Jewishness - and that is one of the reasons his music continues to speak so powerfully to us.

[BetweenTheStaves]

Bit of a curate's egg. Dudamel has been featured this week on R3 and most times I find his interpretation 'jerky'..almost putting in a l....o....n....g pause just for effect. Mahler 2 is one of my favourite symphonies and I have seen it live on many occasions and have many versions on CD. Frankly, great playing and singing but it lacked anything to make it a 'great' performance...largely down to his interpretation. Listening to the closing passages over a very tiny speaker lurking in the kitchen while we ate our supper outside, I still got tingles down the spine...constantly..and it took very little to take me back to being in the RAH hearing those closing bars in performances gone by and what a truly great composer Mahler was.

I'll watch the TV programme and also listen again...maybe I'm missing something,

[gedsmk]

Wow! me too. I have it on a cassette somewhere. I think Jessye Norman was singing.

tonight was a great experience live in the Arena. Brilliant off stage brass up in the gallery.
The Chorus were magnificent. I can confirm Anna Larsson in tears at the end. She has always been a class act.

But, goodness me, why did Dudamel stretch it out soooo much?

I was particularly impressed with the participation of the audience: most on "edge of seat" form. hardly any coughs, and just one mobile phone. Total silence between movements apart from when the solo singers walked on.

I look forward to hearing it on iplayer. I will miss the tv broadcast tomorrow cos I'll be back in the arena for our own superb NYO.

[Ravensbourne]

I don't understand why such a brilliant orchestra is performing with the National Youth Choir of Great Britain.

I take that back. The National Youth Choir of Great Britain were brilliant, and sang from memory.

Even in the quite passages they were fabulous, whereas the strings were sometimes inaudible.

[amac4165]

Just got back from the Hall - Hyde Park is closed which disrupted my parking arrangements.

To sum up enjoyable but not great. The tempi so slow in places it almost stopped ruining some great passages - other places it seemed so overplayed. Often very loud and often very quiet but not much in between. The choir were very good - excellent idea to have them sing without scores - presumably so projection was far better.

Couldn't help thinking they would have been better off with Mahler 8 - I think it would have stood this style of playing alot better.

amac

[cavatina]

I was curiously unmoved: high in intensity, low on subtlety. In other words, I got chills down my spine, but I didn't weep. It's quite rare that I don't cry while listening to Mahler, but I was completely dry-eyed as it seemed to go for the "big effect" at the price of an easy, coarse sentimentalism.

I'm definitely glad I came though, as I had a bit of an epiphany: on a visceral level, I finally understand why some people hate Mahler.

I will say it was wonderful to see that he grabbed the audience like few conductors I've ever seen-- it was a bit jarring to hear such wild applause before the concert, but the huge outpouring of enthusiasm was definitely a refreshing change and food for thought.

[jayne lee wilson]

Of course it must have been thrilling to be there, but...

I second those who found much of it far too long-drawn-out. Dudamel's conception of the first movement was like an arch, with very slow opening and closing sections (based on similar thematic material) but speeding up considerably for the development and the approach to the great climax, this at a broader tempo not dissimilar to Rattle and many others. The coda thus seemed more "postludial" than in other performances. This at least did put the emphasis on the main climax. Andante likewise, very slower landler sections, much faster trio. And so on throughout the performance, with the apparent aim of heightened intensity through extremes of pace; the scherzo, if anything, rather quick.

I did find my attention wandering during the slower sections, despite the fact that the actual phrasing and overall architectural shaping was respectful, even conventional. But, whatever the obvious extremity, Dudamel and his impassioned performers really did seem to be trying to draw us in to the music, not to the conductor's personal view of it. His interview in the August Gramophone has several reflections on tempi, eg. "right now I need the space to sustain things, and then, in the future, maybe it will be faster". He does seem always to be searching for a changing, creative approach to interpretation.

I felt, listening at home, that the orchestra sometimes lacked the sheer body and richness an older american or european band might have, though brass and percussion had a tremendous impact and the choir projected quite well. I guess this might seem to miss the point of Simon Bolivar, but one can't help recalling other performances. Petrenko here in Liverpool gave us a terrific, savagely demonic, swift and urgent reading back in February. About as different from tonight as it could be, and hard to forget. One does tend to remember the live ones.

[kernelbogey]

Wow! me too. I have it on a cassette somewhere. I think Jessye Norman was singing.

Hi gedsmk - is that a response to my mention of the Maazel performance? If so, amazingly, I'd forgotten Jessye Norman (how could I have...?).

If you did mean that, please say more about the performance and its date, if you can, to refresh my memory - thanks.

What has stuck in my memory about it are two things:

The way Maazel slowed down, in the first movement, the repeated four chords and the following descending tutti scale - just shattering.

And the incredible pppp of the chorus's entry on Wieder auferstehen - truly spine-tingling.

BW, kb