Prom 43: Tuesday 16th August at 7.00 p.m. (Copland, Bax, Bartok, Barber, Prokofiev)

[David Underdown]

Perhaps they wre hoping she would wear the same dress as at the Hollywood Bowl?? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...Lq4I_blog.html

[BudgieJane]

Perhaps they wre hoping she would wear the same dress as at the Hollywood Bowl?? http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...Lq4I_blog.html

Who cares what the performers wear? It's the music that's important.

[french frank]

Who cares what the performers wear? It's the music that's important.

Well ... I was quite relieved she wasn't wearing that dress

The NY Times article about the 'dime-a-dozen' young virtuosos was very interesting. It seems to be a common experience in conservatoires that works judged 'near impossible' a few decades ago are now cheerfully mastered, technically, by whole classes of 16-year-olds who can also handle anything else in the repertoire. Also the idea that some (older) professionals deliberately limit themselves to what they 'need' - the repertoire they want to specialise in.

I couldn't begin to judge Wang's performance against any other interpretations but as a live performance it was certainly impressive. At the risk of provoking a riot of indignation, I'm afraid I found the Bax rather uninvolving, whereas the Bartók took off right from the beginning.

[BudgieJane]

At the risk of provoking a riot of indignation, I'm afraid I found the Bax rather uninvolving

No indignation from me.

It's all very well people complaining about works being hardly ever heard. When they are played you immediately see why they are hardly ever heard.

[Simon B]

No indignation intended here - I'd have expected that reaction from a proportion of those who heard it. But, the Bax symphonies are (along with much other worthwhile repertoire, surely) firmly in the category of works that won't reveal that much on a first "cold" hearing.

I had to listen to most of them a good few times (with the exception of the 4th) before they started to "click" - and the whole soundworld and structure is relatively unusual in any case.

In a way it's hard to judge whether this was a good performance of Bax 2 as there's nothing to compare it with other than recordings. My own reaction as not-a-Bax-o-phile was that much detail that isn't revealed in either the Lloyd-Jones or Handley recordings was revealed here, and that this is music worth occasional outings (i.e. more than every 40 years). I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I doubt that would have been the case if I wasn't sufficiently familiar with it from CDs. If I have a criticism of the performance, it's that it needed to be angrier with climaxes of even more sound and fury, including a good deal more welly from the organ. But that's a minor niggle in the context of a very good concert overall and the chance to hear Bax 2 at all.

There'd be no harm in dropping Bax 4 into a (like this one) well thought-out Prom at some point IMO, not least as it has more in the way of immediate appeal and drive.

[Bax-of-Delights]

When they are played you immediately see why they are hardly ever heard.

Immediately? Heavens, what a perfect critical faculty some people have!

[french frank]

I'd probably have done better if I'd copied my neighbouring Gallerians and sat on the floor, back to the orchestra, and let the sound wrap like a blanket over me.

Whereas for many the symphony is the height of musical achievement I tend to deconstruct it and fret about what the bit of tambourine-shaking meant (why was it there?). Don't get that feeling with a string quartet ...

[BudgieJane]

Immediately? Heavens, what a perfect critical faculty some people have!

You know what I mean

[Ferretfancy]

I started listening to the Bax symphonies when they first appeared on the Lyrita label, and followed that up with Vernon Handley and others. I know that there have been some fine recorded performances, but I do feel that the particular type of rhetoric in them does not perhaps record very well. After all, you really need to hear them at a decent level, and that is not always possible. The experience at the Prom the other night was in quite another order. I thought I knew the second quite well, but it was much more revealing in the hall.

[pilamenon]

I'm a big fan of these three-parters - Brabbins did a fine one last year that included a very good James Dillon commission La Navette juxtaposed with Mozart, Liszt, Rimsky-K and one of the less often heard Tchaikovsky symphonies, while the Danish RSO/Dausgaard one with Langgaard's Music of the Spheres was probably my highlight of the 2010 season. This one was most enjoyable, too, and not the kind of fare I would associate with the RPO, who produced a sumptuous sound on FM and on this evidence are perhaps somewhat under-rated these days. Wonderful to hear that it was packed out - for whatever reason.

The Bax symphony impressed me deeply - I'd had a go with that Handley cycle several years ago and didn't really click with any except the 3rd. Probably not the way to approach them. Heard in isolation here, this No 2, whilst sounding clearly the work of a British composer, conveyed a refreshingly different sound-world from that of Elgar and VW, and had me pretty gripped throughout, despite or perhaps because of its meanderings. All three movements.

The Bartok PC2 was riveting, for me it's the clear pick of the three.

One of the top concerts of the season so far.

[prokkyshosty]

I'm a big fan of these three-parters - Brabbins did a fine one last year that included a very good James Dillon commission La Navette juxtaposed with Mozart, Liszt, Rimsky-K and one of the less often heard Tchaikovsky symphonies

Hear hear! I love this format, especially as it makes a spot available for these full-length 40-minute symphonies that either don't have the name recognition or the bombast to fill out the post-intermission half of the usual concert.

My vote for the next one to be featured in this way is Darius Milhaud's 1st Symphony, a wonderful work which I'll probably never hear in concert. Or Nielsen 1-3? Vaughn Williams 4 or 6??

[3rd Viennese School]

Managed to miss the Bax twice! Had no idea it was on yesterday afternoon. First heard this one in March. Im trudging through the series. It’s a good symphony, with weird harmonies at time and quite aggresive!

Bartok Piano con 2- heard this. His concertos always soound different to the standard concertos and not easy to recall. I may get some Bartok concertos on CD. (I only have Piano con 1). The string chords in mvt 2 sound very nocturnal and nostalgic. It would be good to get to know these works a bit more.

Heard the Prokofiev 4 revised. When you hear this as a symphony in a concert item you immedialty notice how tuneful this is. First time I’ve heard this on the radio. For me the original is better but is that because I started with that one? The original sounds harder edged and more clearly defined in its outer mvts, with the ending being much more rough and aggressive sounding. The revised sort of takes this away. Although the revised mvt 2 is good, brings out the tune more. This is the finale of the prodigal son, the homecoming.
Anyway, the presenter seemed to have got the notes for this symphony mixed up with no.5 and no.6! And didn’t mentioned that this symphony was also banned!
Anyway, if any prom was worth attending this one certainly was! There should be more like this. Take out the Barber and Copland though.

3VS

[Dave2002]

No indignation from me.

It's all very well people complaining about works being hardly ever heard. When they are played you immediately see why they are hardly ever heard.

In the first few minutes I was impressed with the Bax in the hall, but then, as I feared, I started to find it tedious again. For me there are plenty of other neglected symphonies which are better than this one by Bax (Glazunov and Miaskovsky wrote some, for example), but it's at least good to see some of these things trying to surface from time to time. The Bartok piano concerto was much more involving - though in the hall the opening was muddled and the speed of the opening piano runs effectively doubled until my ears figured it out. I found the same re the R3 repeat the other afternoon - with the piano concerto being involving throughout, though the microphones picked up the piano part better. Prokofiev's symphony is another curiosity, and perhaps that should only be let out very occasionally too.

[BBMmk2]

This concert was a perfect programme for me! Agreed the Bartok was a bit muddled to start with but turned out ok after the first couple of minutes. Ther Prok 4, a marvelous work!

[morebritishmusicplease]

Hi morebritishmusicplease,

I've just checked the proms archive and no.7 was last performed - wait for it! - 60 years ago exactly. .

It's really strange - I could have sworn I remember hearing No. 7 at the Proms, the year of Bax's centenary; it just shows how your memory (well, my memory) goes berserk as you get older! Slightly worrying, actually. I am pretty certain they did the Violin Concerto that year though (please don't tell me I'm wrong on that, too! - there was a most bizarre howl from a member of the audience right in the middle of it; not sure if it was just a loony or iot expressed their opinion of Bax's music! The other dates you mention for performances of the symphonies are absolutely incredible - specially as recordings have been available and presumably selling for years. What does it take to get people to programme these tremendous, colourful, exciting works?