Prom 14: Monday 25th July at 7.30 p.m. (Mahler 9)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Presented by Penny Gore

Mahler's last completed symphony, and one he never lived to hear, is brought to life in the Royal Albert Hall by Sir Roger Norrington in one of his final concerts as Principal Conductor of the Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra, a post he has held for 13 years.

The Ninth Symphony was a work written at a time of personal crisis for Mahler, following the death of his daughter Maria, the loss of his job at the Vienna Court Opera and the diagnosis of his own heart disease. Musically, however, while allusions to death abound, ultimately the work fades into peaceful resignation; as Alban Berg described it: "it expresses an extraordinary love of the earth, of nature, the longing to live in peace, to enjoy it completely to the very heart of one's being, before death comes, as irresistibly it does".

Mahler: Symphony No. 9

Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra (SWR)
Sir Roger Norrington (conductor)

[BBMmk2]

I do find that Sir Roger Norrington's way is rather circumspect. Like bringing in period performance practice etc. Have to wait and see!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Circumspect? I would say utterly misguided. Following his wrecking of Elgar 1 in 2008 with his reinvention of the facts regarding performance practice, I don't want to listen to this performance. Mahler 9 is too great a work to be ruined. Going back to the Elgar, the orchestra sounded so week and whiney that the Tupton Hall School Orchestra of the 1980s was vastly superior.

[amateur51]

Norrington's recording of Mahler symphony no 9 with Stuttgart RSO is available to listen to free on Spotify, should you have a (unbiased) mind to

[BBMmk2]

I will be avoiding this prom EA!!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Norrington's recording of Mahler symphony no 9 with Stuttgart RSO is available to listen to free on Spotify, should you have a (unbiased) mind to

Just how many Norrington performances to you have to listen to in order to be granted permission to pass the "unbiased" test? This ain't bias - it's experience.

[amateur51]

Just how many Norrington performances to you have to listen to in order to be granted permission to pass the "unbiased" test? This ain't bias - it's experience.

I think it relates more to your highly repetitious opinions as expressed beautifully in msg 3, EA

[pilamenon]

Circumspect? I would say utterly misguided. Following his wrecking of Elgar 1 in 2008 with his reinvention of the facts regarding performance practice, I don't want to listen to this performance. Mahler 9 is too great a work to be ruined. Going back to the Elgar, the orchestra sounded so week and whiney that the Tupton Hall School Orchestra of the 1980s was vastly superior.

What nonsense. Far from "wrecking" Elgar 1, Norrington simply brought a fresh perspective to the work, and I found his interpretation beautiful. Hopefully he'll do the same for Mahler 9. This was a must-see for me, but have had to give the ticket away due to other commitments next week, so it's a must-listen instead.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I think it relates more to your highly repetitious opinions as expressed beautifully in msg 3, EA

My opinions are not nearly as repetitious as Norrington's inaccurate claims about his way being what the composers would have expected. I would respect him more if just admitted that he likes it better when played his way. I respect honesty, just as I respect Philemanon's admiration of Norrington's performances. I don't respect those who attempt to rewrite history.

[pilamenon]

Yes, I'm certainly far more interested in what Norrington's music-making sounds like, than what he says about it, which often comes across as dogmatic and perhaps explains why some react against him. However, when interviewed by Lebrecht last year, he seemed to have mellowed a bit.

[Bryn]

Circumspect? I would say utterly misguided.

And as so often you would be entirely wrong. Similarly regarding his Elgar 1, quite simply the finest performances (those at the Proms and on CD) that I have encountered of this very fine symphony (Elgar at his very best, for me).

As for "it's experience", no it's blind prejudice based on what you are used to and think you know to be 'the right way'.

[Bryn]

Yes, I'm certainly far more interested in what Norrington's music-making sounds like, than what he says about it, which often comes across as dogmatic and perhaps explains why some react against him. However, when interviewed by Lebrecht last year, he seemed to have mellowed a bit.

Indeed, he is a self-confessed Thespian, and loves to overstate his case for effect. Try listening to his Elgar 1 or Mahler 9 as if you have never heard the works before. As John Cage had it, "Happy New Ears". That said, I feel RN should be roundly condemned for reinserting Blumine into the re-orchestrated final version of Mahler's Symphony No. 1. Play it in the context of the Titan Symphonic Poem in Two Parts, by all means, but please not in the orchestral context Mahler decided to specifically exclude it from.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That said, I feel RN should be roundly condemned for reinserting Blumine into the re-orchestrated final version of Mahler's Symphony No. 1. Play it in the context of the Titan Symphonic Poem in Two Parts, by all means, but please not in the orchestral context Mahler decided to specifically exclude it from.

But surely the same argument could be applied to Beethoven's "Leonora" and the original version of VW's London Symphony. I do acknowledge that the case of Blumine is slightly different in that it should really only be part of the original scoring.

As for experience vs. "blind prejudice", I can assure you that I appreciate different interpretations of this and other works. And others may like his interpretations. But I fully stand by my assertion that RN adjusts history to back up his own personal preferences.

[Roslynmuse]

But surely the same argument could be applied to Beethoven's "Leonora" and the original version of VW's London Symphony.

I made a similar reference to the VW (and Sibelius 5) on the Proms First Night thread with reference to the various editions of the Glagolitic Mass.

[Bryn]

But surely the same argument could be applied to Beethoven's "Leonora" and the original version of VW's London Symphony.

Only if you mixed versions, in both cases. For the 1st Symphony, as against Titan, Mahler made significant changes to the orchestral forces. Hence I am more than happy to hear Blumine in its earlier orchestral context(s), but find it Historically Ill-informed Performance Practice to insert it into what Mahler presented as his 1st Symphony (without the Titan soubriquet).