Prom 9: Thursday 21st July, 2011 at 7.30 p.m. (Sibelius, Bartók, Janácek)

[Ferretfancy]

An excellent concert heard from the Arena. Some friends thought that the 7th needed more power, but I didn't think so. It isn't necessary to turn this symphony into a Bruckner adagio to make it work. This is an orchestra whose members really listen to each other, and it shows in the balance. The strings in particular made more impact than those of the BBC SO last night. Terrific wind playing in the Janacek, especially those high clarinets, and the brass playing was superb throughout the evening, especially the horns.

[Nick Armstrong]

especially the horns.

[jayne lee wilson]

Only heard part one at home on the HD stream. The Halle sounded wonderful: polished, powerful and full-toned. Both Sibelius pieces were distinguished by fine brass playing - the recurrent trombones in the seventh coming through powerfully; that tricky final crescendo for the strings was beautifully done. (What's a conductor to do, play it louder than the preceding brass/timps?!).
But I would agree with Chris, it was a little ponderous in the middle sections, as if feeling its way towards a different reading. Perhaps Elder, like all good conductors, wants to explore another path through the piece, not just give his stock reading each time?
I've often felt a little short-changed by the Sinfonietta on various broad- and web-casts. When I saw Pesek do it with the RLPO (10/2007) the trumpets were lined up at the top of the choir stalls, and despite Pesek's more romantic approach you and your ears knew all about it! You felt the sonic wave on your face, as if lifted up to the sun.

[mercia]

as an aside, did those of you who watched this concert live on BBC4 try out the solo or maestro cam features? I tried the solo cam in the Bartok for a short while but found that the sound quality was oddly inferior so reverted to the original. They gave the option of the maestro cam with the commentary switched off.

[Ventilhorn]

Returned from the Hall, where of course the cameras were in evidence - I assumed it was being recorded for future Tx, thanks very much for the heads-up about the relay this evening. Shall consult the iPlayer this weekend. It will be interesting to see how it came across the airwaves.

The highlight by a mile was the Bartok. Schiff's tone on the piano absolutely ravishing, subtle, poignant.

But in the Hall, the Sibelius 7 (and, to a lesser extent, Sinfonietta) needed much more edge, a pulse - the symphony in particular seemed... well I said 'polite', someone I was with said 'light', someone else 'limp'. It was disappointing. Parts of it felt like an early run-through. Some great solo playing - but it was the delicate jewellery of the concerto that was suited by the Hallé/Elder approach (and the agreeable Sibelius opener, which is delicate and light).

Yes, I agree about the Bartok. I thought this was a marvellous performance.

Overall though, I was a tad disappointed - certainly in the first half of the concert.

I feel that the Hallé Orchestra lacks Substance at the present time. The individual sections all play well, but when put together in a work such as Sibelius 7, they don't sound to me like an orchestra - they sound like several different sections all doing their own thing at the same time.
I could see little point in opening the concert with the Suite Nº 2. It seemed to me to be an example of works by a great composer which are best kept on the library shelves. (One can say the same of Beethoven or Mozart)

The Janaçek was okay, but I can't really say more than that. A noble effort at the end of an exhausting concert.

I shall keep the recording of the Bartok.
As for the rest, I have heard the Hallé play much better than this and I was, like a previous poster, a little underwhelmed.

VH

[Dave2002]

Splendid Janacek

The Halle Prom with Jancek's Sinfonietta was splendid. Perhaps a pity that the 13 brass players for the fanfare were all in a line. It might have been even better to have them in groups round the hall. There were 26 brass players in all, including those in the orchestra. Brilliant nevertheless!

Bartok's piano concerto no 3 was also excellent with Andras Schiff.

Definitely one for listen again, or the repeat on Sunday.

[maestro267]

I could do without the permanent text in the corner of the screen telling me which piece of music we are listening to. Yes I know it's Bartok's piano concerto no 3, that's why I'm watching!

What about those who don't? Those who just casually flick over and want to know what piece they're hearing without having to wait for possibly 25 minutes? I'm probably not alone, but if I don't know what a piece of music is, I can't really enjoy my first hearing of it, because I'm distracted by the thought of 'What is this?' Which is why I'm glad some of the soloists announced the title of the encore they played before playing it. However, back to the caption, maybe they could shrink it a bit. Or even just bring it up in the gap between movements, with the movement title as well. Either way, it's not a bad idea.

On the concert, I found it very satisfying from a personal point of view. I've tried listening to Sibelius 7 a few times without success (as in, the music doing anything for me), but I really enjoyed it last night. The Janácek was a suitably epic conclusion without overdoing it. Sometimes I feel a little bit mentally exhausted even after the most enjoyable concert, but I had no such feelings after this Prom.

[rauschwerk]

Serly tout seul, I think, Bryn? I don't have my score handy, but I seem to remember it was the last 17 bars that Serly orchestrated/completed. Nice job he made of it too, though I don't know how extensive Bartók's sketches were.

The score states that Bartok completed the full score except for those last bars which he completed in kind of musical shorthand. He had no time for his usual meticulous editing, and this job was done by Tibor Serly, Eugene Ormandy (who conducted the first performance), Louis Kentner and Erwin Stein (I think he worked for the publishers).

I did think much of the chat before the Bartok to be pointless. The woman (Anna?) sitting next to Julian Joseph did talk some utter rubbish, opining at one point that some of the concerto sounded like Stravinsky! None of the three seemed aware of the possibility that the opening of the slow movement (Andante religioso) might be though of as Bartok's Heiliger Dankgesang, written when there had been an improvement in the composer's health. I wonder who these chats are aimed at? I asked my wife - who loves this music but is perhaps not as well-informed about it as I am - whether she had found the conversation illuminating and she said not.

As for Schiff's remarks on playing Bartok, you needed to listen very carefully to what he said. He spoke of the rhetorical aspects of Bartok's playing, and how it was often like speech. No one who has heard any of the composer's recordings can fail to be struck by the beauty of his playing. I did love the way Schiff approached the concerto and did not find it at all mannered.

[Bax-of-Delights]

I watched the first half primarily for the Sibelius 7th which is, for me, one of those emotional touchstone pieces. I've had the DGG Karajan recording for nigh on 30 years in my collection and to date I haven't heard any other performance, live or recorded, that quite hits the spot. That final C major chord has to be absolutely electrifying in its majesty not, as I heard last night, somewhat low on voltage - a light giving one final weak burst before it finally goes out.

And, on a much more mundane level, I see large sections of what look to be off-cuts from silver plate are now de rigeur as neck ornaments among the presenters. Ms.Klein's was big enough to have "Brandy" stamped across it.

[Tapiola]

I unfortunately only heard the Bartok. I must agree with bluestateprommer about Schiff's playing. I was slightly alarmed at the way he pulled the tempi about in the first movement - yes, "mannered" was the word that occurred to me, but that's Schiff! - to the extent that I felt the orchestral ensemble suffered as a result, with a bit of raggedness creeping in. For me, things significantly improved in the 2nd and 3rd movements, with the last movement the best of all, I thought.

[Nick Armstrong]

I thought this was a pretty fair review, in the light of what I heard last night: http://www.theartsdesk.com/index.php...hall&Itemid=27

[NickWraight]

The Bartok 3 was played adequately by Schiff but there were a fair few fluffs, especially in the first movement where most of the slight mannerisms also came in. A friend was following the score in the Arena and spotted a surprisingly high number of mistakes. I am, though, looking forward to the earlier 2 concertos later in the season.

Hearing the 2 Sibelius works beside one another was fascinating and the stylistic changes, amongst other contrasts, was very welcome.

The Janacek I thought was splendid. Excitingly judged tempi with the extra brass chorus spatially and aurally apart from the orchestral group giving the required effect. Having the extra group split round the Hall would spoil the intended mass effect. The playing was in general vey good indeed with just one slightly painful and stratospherically high couple of bars for fiddles.

The Halle seem to be on very fine form at present with a cultured unforced quality to their sound with no hint of raucousness in the tutti. Of how many British bands can you say that?

To make a more general comment, to hear rarely perfomed works is (should be?) one of the strengths of the Proms. So when folk suggest that less well known works by "Great" composers that are performed should not have been seems to me to miss the point. I would agree that in many cases works are justifiably neglected but that is no reason to ignore them completely!

[Tapiola]

The interview with Schiff was interesting. He suggested that there was only one way to play Bartok - the way the composer himself played it.

If this is what Schiff said (I did not hear his interview prior to the concert), surely this diminishes the value of the music as a work of art, in that it infers that such art cannot be susceptible to a variety of interpretation?

[Nick Armstrong]

Just listened again to the Sibelius 7 (and watched) via iPlayer... using the nice big iMac with its good speakers. MUCH more impressive than live in the hall. The mics picked up a weight in the playing that the Albert Hall swallowed up, perhaps. But then it should have been played for the hall, I would have thought, rather than the microphones...

But oh dear, ridiculous gushing from the two 'celebrities' afterwards

Intriguing interviews with 3 punters on the rail in the arena after that, though: any Message Boarders among the trio???

[jayne lee wilson]

Bax-of-delights, have you heard the Rozhdestvensky, recently remastered on Melodiya? It's surprising in its well-judged pacing and carefully graded power, and very beautiful in the lyrical passages, especially that just after the first crescendo. I also like Sanderling with the Berlin Symphony very much, where his steady approach reveals the structure of piece; if you can seek out any of Akeo Watanabe's readings, you might be very surprised! The one I have to hand is the TDK one (CD, not DVD!) with the Helsinki Phil in Tokyo, 1982. This is part of an excellent cycle shared with Okko Kamu, drawn from Tokyo FM. This is Japan-only, but I believe there may be another, earlier one of Watanabe's readings still available here. Look on Amazon.