Prom 5 - Monday 18th July 2011 (Messiaen, Dusapin, Beethoven)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Presented by Rob Cowan

Myung-Whun Chung conducts the Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France and is joined by Proms first-timers Gautier and Renaud Capuçon, and pianist Frank Braley for Beethoven's Triple Concerto. There's also colourful music by Messiaen alongside the UK premiere of an exciting new work for large orchestra by Pascal Dusapin.

Pascal Dusapin is one of the most exciting contemporary voices around, combining stylistic experimentation with emotional directness. Dusapin studied briefly with Olivier Messiaen, whose first orchestral work, Les offrandes oubliées, opens the concert.

Messiaen: Les offrandes oubliées
Pascal Dusapin: Morning in Long Island - Concerto No. 1 for large orchestra (BBC co-commission with Radio France; UK Premiere)
Beethoven: Triple Concerto

Renaud Capuçon (violin)
Gautier Capuçon (cello)
Frank Braley (piano)
Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France
Myung-Whun Chung (conductor)


Renaud Capuçon (violin)
Gautier Capuçon (cello)
Frank Braley (piano)
Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France
Myung-Whun Chung (conductor)

[Tevot]

I'm looking forward to this one as it gives me the opportunity to get to grips with the Triple Concerto - which if I've read the proms archive correctly has been performed only 21 times at the Proms; last time in 2001. Looking forward to the Dusapin too (he reminds me of Berio - certainly his piano concerto A quia had echoes) I'd also recommend "Watt" which is Dusapin's trombone concerto. Yes - it promises to be an interesting and engaging concert - as indeed does Prom 6 with the Rite of Spring and the Brahms Double. I have fond memories of Myung-Whun Chung's Nielsen cycle on BIS back in the 1980s - so I'll definitely be tuning into these concerts.

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[Roehre]

I am looking forward to that Prom too, especially Dusapin's concerto for orchestra.

Messiaen's piece was one of the very first ones of his which I came across, many moons ago.

As an absolute Beethoven-fan I am nevertheless afraid I think Beethoven's inventiveness in solving compositional problems had a day off during the composition of the triple-concerto.
And that was the 2nd time around, as the composition of a triple concerto in D was abandoned - and much for the same reason why I think the concerto is not a great success: the inertia of the melodies and themes.

In the completed concerto especially the opening theme of the 1st mvt basically offers hardly any grips for further development. But let's face it: Beethoven had to re-invent the concerto-form here, as he didn't have any examples of a pianotrio-sinfonia-concertante at hand (AFAIK he was the very first to compose for such a combination), and the pianotrio is inherently unbalanced anyway. So he came with a kind of concerto-grosso solution, with the soloists more stating melodies than actually developing them. But IMO this strategy hasn't really paid off.

Nevertheless it is an interesting work, though IMO far from Beethoven's best.

[Alf-Prufrock]

Golly, a vuvuzela concerto !

[Chris Newman]

I loved the Messiaen which was beautiful and moving; very moving. I had not heard this particular work before but wish to do so again.

I felt Pascal Dusapin's Morning in Long Island - Concerto No. 1 was also beautiful but for too long it remained static, then when it sped up it repeated something familiar that I cannot put my finger on.

[pilamenon]

I loved the Messiaen which was beautiful and moving; very moving. I had not heard this particular work before but wish to do so again.

I felt Pascal Dusapin's Morning in Long Island - Concerto No. 1 was also beautiful but for too long it remained static, then when it sped up it repeated something familiar that I cannot put my finger on.

Agreed about both. So good to hear Les Offrandes again after an absence. Wasn't it beautifully done?

Golly, a vuvuzela concerto !

It sounded like a giant orchestral fart.

[Chris Newman]

A nicely assertive rendering of the Beethoven Triple Concerto though the close miking of the trio may have exaggerated that effect. The opening amuses me for wrong reasons where Beethoven seems to use themes from Fidelio (a contemporary work of 1804) which threaten to turn into the Val-deri, val-dera, ha, ha... chorus of the 1954 hit "The Happy Wanderer".

[Roehre]

I loved the Messiaen which was beautiful and moving; very moving. I had not heard this particular work before but wish to do so again.

I felt Pascal Dusapin's Morning in Long Island - Concerto No. 1 was also beautiful but for too long it remained static, then when it sped up it repeated something familiar that I cannot put my finger on.

I've heard the Messiaen only half, but I am always impressed by this juvenilium of Messiaen's (he was 21/22 at that time).
The Dusapin IMO is too long for its contents (though I like the orchestral colouring), and the "familiarity" for me was actually the "fog-horn " from Maxwell Davies' The Lighthouse and the percussion section of some big-band-show-orchestra.

For me the Beethoven is too weak a work to listen to regularly. Btw, the very opening of the tripleconcerto, as well as half of the 1st theme in the rondo of the 4th pianoconcerto were originally sketched for the prisoners' chorus in Leonore.
Not a bad guess, chris

[Bryn]

Admittedly I was only a few places back from the front of the Arena, but the live acoustic balance there also very much favoured the trio of soloists. Hiding behind the piano, the orchestra could almost have been an off-stage band.

[Bryn]

A nicely assertive rendering of the Beethoven Triple Concerto though the close miking of the trio may have exaggerated that effect. The opening amuses me for wrong reasons where Beethoven seems to use themes from Fidelio (a contemporary work of 1804) which threaten to turn into the Val-deri, val-dera, ha, ha... chorus of the 1954 hit "The Happy Wanderer".

You are, I take it CN, familiar with Leonore Overture Number 4 (and I don't mean Fidelio).

[Chris Newman]

You are, I take it CN, familiar with Leonore Overture Number 4 (and I don't mean Fidelio).

Oh, Bryn!!! I was obviously too serious about my musical link with The Happy Wanderer(s). I had completely forgotten the famous 4th Overture as delightfully conducted by Norman del Mar!! A shame it and associated music are not allowed on YouTube.

[Tevot]

Another imho excellent concert which seemed to be very well enjoyed by the audience - certainly Rob Cowan seemed to be impressed. It'll be interesting to see what the newspaper critics make of it. Both the French pieces were quite static it seemed to me (first time I've heard the Messiaen who is a composer I don't generally warm to) and it was interesting to hear Rob Cowan's reaction to the Dusapin - namely "(you) never knew where it was going to turn..." which I suppose can be a weakness as well as a strength. I rather liked the Dusapin though and will certainly be giving it a spin again on the trusty i-player.

Best Wishes,

Tevot.

[Roslynmuse]

I enjoyed much of the Dusapin - the static nature of much of the work didn't bother me at all, and I thought he coloured and shaded the melodic/ harmonic shapes in such a way as to keep my interest alive. Two red herrings - the high violin entry near the start reminded me irresistibly of the first Peter Grimes Sea Interlude (the pitch - I think - as well as the scoring, and perhaps some subconscious link to Dusapin describing the inspiration for the work being early morning on a freezing beach - the answering bass swell was also Brittenesque), and some of the later high-lying string lines made me think of Mahler 10 (very fine playing, by the way). A more blatant influence seemed to be the end of the Rite in the last five minutes or so (although squared off rhythmically into predictably regular bars) - a disappointing conclusion to what had up till then been a piece I was looking forward to revisiting. Also, here, unless my ears deceived me, there didn't seem to be any increase in rate of harmonic change, just a more active surface. In retrospect, the jazzy percussion five or six minutes in should have warned me of the way the piece might go. Oh, and I really disliked the moment another poster described (more or less) as flatulent! OK, there was a premonition of that in the opening bars, but nowhere near so crude, and I can't imagine what Dusapin was trying to convey here.

Hints of Dutilleux (the funky bass/timps riffs before the final section).

I haven't heard enough of PD to get a sense of his voice, and this struck me as fairly 'soft-core', but I think worth another listen, and a comparison with next week's performances.

[Tevot]

Here are a two reviews of the concert:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/proms/8647225/BBC-Proms-2011-Prom-5-Orchestre-Philharmonique-de-Radio-France-Albert-Hall-review.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/19/prom-5-review

Best wishes,

Tevot

[Roehre]

I had completely forgotten the famous 4th Overture as delightfully conducted by Norman del Mar!! A shame it and associated music are not allowed on YouTube.

The only performance I've got is on a Decca 2CD with two Hoffnung concerts, are there any others?