Prom 1 - Friday 15th July 2011 at 7.30 p.m.

[salymap]

Good to hear from cellini, and to see that he hasn't mellowed

Best wishes to cellini if he reads this. He could be a pain in the whatsit but was always interesting. saly

I thought the sound problems were my hearing but the Academic Festival Overture really sounded awful. I shall try it again on iplayer if it is working. Sorry VH Czech/Russian soloists were brilliant.

[perfect wagnerite]

Why on earth should the soloists in the Janacek be British? It isn't British music, and the Proms isn't (aren't?) a Little England festival.

Absolutely. Not only were the soloists excellent, but how many British singers can perform in idiomatic Czech?

We have to get off this idea that the Proms are somehow a festival of English music and music-making. From the days of Henry Wood the Proms have always been an international festival - moreover one that has introduced new music from all over the world.

[makropulos]

Does the standard version of the Glag have parts for three timpanists in the (I think it was?) third movement? The only other time I've seen this performed live (Simon Rattle in Boston ten years ago), it was billed as an "original" version, which sounded a lot like this one (I remembered the timpani quite well), but also included the opening Intrada as well, which I too missed tonight.

I really enjoyed the Weir place, and wished it had gone much longer, though it might be that I just like choral works with three timpani and an organ.

@Prokkyshosty - the version of the Glag that Janacek approved for publication in 1928 (the vocal score came out in his lifetime, the full score just after he died) is for just one timpanist, and begins as last night's performance began. This is what you get on the famous recording by Karel Ancerl, and on Charles Mackerras's first (Supraphon CD) recording. Then Paul Wingfield came along and made a reconstruction of the first version of the piece, peeling back many layers of changes and uncovering things like the three timpanists. That's the version that Mackerras used for his second (Chandos) and third (Supraphon DVD) recordings, and it's the one you must have heard Rattle conducting in Boston - and yes, it begins with the (closing) Intrada. Evidence for doing that comes from the programme for the first performance, which helpfully lists all the movements.

What Jiri Zahrádka has done is something similar to Wingfield - but he's peeled back yet further layers which is why there were very big differences between Wingfield's "original" version and Zahrádhka's "original" version - both reflect snapshots of what the piece was like at a particular time before the premiere, and in Zahrádka's case he specifically aims for September 1927. So that's what we had last night.

Meanwhile, there's nothing wrong with the regular version either - since it isn't some kind of bowdlerized version, but rather Janacek's final view of the piece. All of which is rather a good excuse to hear all three (Janacek 1928, Wingfield original, Zahrádka original) versions.

And yes, I agree with you about Weir too.

[makropulos]

Oh dear, Herr Ventilhorn. Janacek sung by Czech soloists seems absolutely the right thing to do, and the first night of the Proms has never been "the most British of our musical tradition" - far from it: it's often an opportunity to perform a big choral work (last year it was Mahler 8). Agreed, that the chorus were superb last night.

In my view your "assurances" re William Tell are ill-founded, even if you have played the piece "on many occasions" (where? the complete opera hasn't been performed on "many" occasions in the last 50 years). For me it is by far Rossini's most original and forward-looking opera, a wonderful experience, and an extraordinary if premature end to his operatic career. So I expect to enjoy it very much...especially as Pappano has a tremendous flair for the piece.

[Ferretfancy]

salymap

I'm very sorry that you are troubled by tinnitus. May I ask, does it have the effect of boosting some frequencies and giving a steely edge to everything? Back in the spring I took advantage of a free hearing test at Boots, and was prescribed some hearing aids, although my hearing loss was just the normal age related thing. I couldn't get used to them and sent them back for a refund, but since then I've developed what is apparently called hyperacusis. This exaggerates freqencies in the presence region, boosting sibilants. If I drop a spoon into a saucer it's like a firebell.
Here's the good news. It is improving gradually, and I can now listen at home. I went to last night's Prom, and in spite of the very loud music, I found the experience reassuring, a bit harsh at times, but bearable. Incidentally even in the hall the strings in the Brahms were very covered by woodwinds and brass from my vantage point in the Arena,
so perhaps the broadcast reflected that.
I do hope that your problems do resolve themselves. I was very depressed at the outset, thinking that my music at home would be impossible, but it's getting better steadily.

Very Bws.

Ferret

[Ventilhorn]

In my view your "assurances" re William Tell are ill-founded, even if you have played the piece "on many occasions" (where? the complete opera hasn't been performed on "many" occasions in the last 50 years). For me it is by far Rossini's most original and forward-looking opera, a wonderful experience, and an extraordinary if premature end to his operatic career. So I expect to enjoy it very much...especially as Pappano has a tremendous flair for the piece.

Check the Welsh National Opera Seasons in the early 1960s. Ronald Lewis as William Tell and Elizabeth Vaughan as his son.
New theatre, Cardiff.

I certainly hope that you will enjoy tonight's performance. I will endeavour to do likewise ...... but compared with Cenerentola, Italian Girl, Barber of Seville ....

No contest.

VH

[Roehre]

@Prokkyshosty - the version of the Glag that Janacek approved for publication in 1928 (the vocal score came out in his lifetime, the full score just after he died) is for just one timpanist, and begins as last night's performance began. This is what you get on the famous recording by Karel Ancerl, and on Charles Mackerras's first (Supraphon CD) recording. Then Paul Wingfield came along and made a reconstruction of the first version of the piece, peeling back many layers of changes and uncovering things like the three timpanists. That's the version that Mackerras used for his second (Chandos) and third (Supraphon DVD) recordings, and it's the one you must have heard Rattle conducting in Boston - and yes, it begins with the (closing) Intrada. Evidence for doing that comes from the programme for the first performance, which helpfully lists all the movements.

What Jiri Zahrádka has done is something similar to Wingfield - but he's peeled back yet further layers which is why there were very big differences between Wingfield's "original" version and Zahrádhka's "original" version - both reflect snapshots of what the piece was like at a particular time before the premiere, and in Zahrádka's case he specifically aims for September 1927. So that's what we had last night.

Thanks for this information, Makropulos.

[Tristan Klingsor]

I have real doubts about this earlier (by three months) version of the Glagolitic. Janacek wasn't Bruckner and if he made cuts I believe he would have meant them; he was after all an experienced, mature professional well able to judge the effect of his work in rehearsal which I would guess is when he made the changes. Inauthentic versions of the operas where his orchestration was simplified and cuts made by others after his death are a different matter though.

[salymap]

salymap

I'm very sorry that you are troubled by tinnitus. May I ask, does it have the effect of boosting some frequencies and giving a steely edge to everything? Back in the spring I took advantage of a free hearing test at Boots, and was prescribed some hearing aids, although my hearing loss was just the normal age related thing. I couldn't get used to them and sent them back for a refund, but since then I've developed what is apparently called hyperacusis. This exaggerates freqencies in the presence region, boosting sibilants. If I drop a spoon into a saucer it's like a firebell.
Here's the good news. It is improving gradually, and I can now listen at home. I went to last night's Prom,


and in spite of the very loud music, I found the experience reassuring, a bit harsh at times, but bearable. Incidentally even in the hall the strings in the Brahms were very covered by woodwinds and brass from my vantage point in the Arena,
so perhaps the broadcast reflected that.
I do hope that your problems do resolve themselves. I was very depressed at the outset, thinking that my music at home would be impossible, but it's getting better steadily.

Very Bws.

Ferret

Thanks ferret, yes the symptoms are much as you say. Some time ago I was about to try Boots for a hearing aid and read your same comments re tinnitus so you saved me some trouble. Thanks. I asked my Dr for a hearing testat the local hospital ibn May and am still waiting for an appointment. TheNHS is sometimes good but very slow these days, best wishes to you,

[prokkyshosty]

Aptly-named makropulos, you are clearly the man to come to for Janacek information. Thanks!

[Roslynmuse]

Haven't listened yet, but I just wanted to be the lone voice speaking up for Liszt No 2! Am I the only person who prefers it to No 1? Admittedly it's an uneven work and Liszt's thematic transformations plumb the depths at times, but is there anything more achingly beautiful than the opening bars?

Slightly off-topic, but if I were going to listen to Liszt for piano and orchestra, my first choices would be Totentanz and the Hungarian Fantasia.

Interesting reading about the various versions of the Janacek. Without knowing the background to the changes in detail it's difficult to comment meaningfully, but my gut response is the same as Tristan Klingsor's - I was thinking about Sibelius 5 and how availability of the materials for the original version of that work in no way replaces the standard version as the one that should be performed. (Or RVW London Symphony, for that matter.)

[makropulos]

I have real doubts about this earlier (by three months) version of the Glagolitic. Janacek wasn't Bruckner and if he made cuts I believe he would have meant them; he was after all an experienced, mature professional well able to judge the effect of his work in rehearsal which I would guess is when he made the changes. Inauthentic versions of the operas where his orchestration was simplified and cuts made by others after his death are a different matter though.

@Tristan Klingsor: I entirely agree with you about this, and share your doubts. The final version of Glag was very much all Janacek's own work, and is a much tauter and more closely-argued piece of work, unsurprisingly. What Zahrádka has uncovered is the score as LJ pretty much took along to the start of rehearsals. I know that Zahrádka - too - is of the view that the definitive version (i.e. the 1928 published vocal score) is how LJ intended the piece to be performed, which is why his new edition will include both versions. But it was really intriguing to hear the first thoughts last night - and I'm glad Belohlavek gave us a chance to do that.

[EdgeleyRob]

We have to get off this idea that the Proms are somehow a festival of English music and music-making. From the days of Henry Wood the Proms have always been an international festival - moreover one that has introduced new music from all over the world.

You can say that again! The proms are far from being a festival of English music, but a little more would be welcome.
I had never heard the Janacek before but thought it was wonderful. Can anyone recommend a version to download?.

[makropulos]

You can say that again! The proms are far from being a festival of English music, but a little more would be welcome.
I had never heard the Janacek before but thought it was wonderful. Can anyone recommend a version to download?.

So glad you enjoyed it - I love this work.

As for downloads, there are several that are well worth trying. For something quite close to the version of the music we heard last night, Mackerras on Chandos is a terrific performance of Paul Wingfield's edition of the early version:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Janacek-Glagolitic-Kodaly-Psalmus-Hungaricus/dp/B001MV1B54/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1310818054&sr=1-6

For the piece as Janacek had it published, with some quite extensive revisions, the Mackerras Supraphon recording is also pretty terrific:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Janacek-Glagolitic-Mass/dp/B003EWPUUG/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=dmusic&qid=1310818054&sr=1-7

There are others that are good (including Kubelik and Kempe) but the two I've linked are among my favourite performances of the work, in whatever version.

[Pianorak]

. . . I was not so keen on the Brahms / Liszt encore. . . The Janacek was terrific in the hall, is it really possible for a recording to do it justice ?

Liszt not guilty - it was Brahms/G.Cziffra.

The tenor in the Janacek may have risen to the occasion if that's what was called for. It sounded more like a rather shouty Sprechgesang to me. But I'm no expert - so please ignore.