Prom 4: Sunday 17th July 2011 at 7.00 p.m. (Brian 'The Gothic')

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  • Chris Newman
    Late Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 2100

    #91
    Television can be a distraction when the camera work is too fiddly. The New Year's Concerts from Vienna and many proms are spoilt by irritating flashed looks at plasterwork, flowers and, in the case of the latter, flying saucers. Or there are the long looks at musicians who are doing nothing and looming dives into a nostril.

    And accidents do happen. The most unfortunate was a few days after a showing of "The Arthur Haynes Show" when the brilliant comedian (in his weekly guise as the annoying tramp who sits next to you on a park bench when your are eating you packed lunch) just shocked his straight man, Nicholas Parsons, by blowing his his nose into a grubby handchief and then wiping his face. The televised concert later that week was of Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony. At the end of of the third movement the camera peered into Lorin Maazel's sweaty face as he blew his nose then wiped his brow. Oh dear.

    The BBCSSO have a good idea with their fixed cameras in their Glasgow hall which enable them to download concerts with a minimum of fancy camera work. These appear occasionally on their page on the BBC website.
    Last edited by Chris Newman; 18-07-11, 11:15. Reason: spelling

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    • Wilus

      #92
      Here are the reviews. Edward Seckerson comes nearest to my own view, but I love Ivan Hewett's notion of the Gothic as a great mythical sea-beast!

      Brabbins and his hordes did a magnificent job, but the Gothic Symphony is no spurned masterpiece, writes Andrew Clements




      Two entire blocks of stalls and at least a third of the arena had been commandeered by the children’s choruses and four brass bands, each with its own timpanist; the combined BBC National Orchestra of Wales and BBC Concert Orchestras sported 15 percussion players between them and the phalanx of choruses including the LSO, Brighton, Huddersfield, and Bach Choir rose either side of the organ like something out of Gormenghast.

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      • french frank
        Administrator/Moderator
        • Feb 2007
        • 30331

        #93
        They all seem to agree that the Prom itself was a huge success, perfectly possible even with a work like this which has its 'controversial' aspects.
        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

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        • David Underdown

          #94
          Originally posted by Jane Sullivan View Post
          She was singing from outside the door she walked off through.
          Are you sure? It sounded more as if she were in the gallery beside the organ, and I didn't notice the door being held open (but then I was looking higher). There was certainly enough time for her to get further.

          The choral writing certainly is hard. I did the Sing Sunday workshop in the afternoon, and while I'm a pretty experienced choral singer, and strong sight-singer, the sheer number of parts makes getting to grips with it immensely difficult, before even getting to the challenge of the generally high tessitura - but then you are occasionally also sent grovelling into the depths. In the extracts we looked at, the tenor line ranged from Bb on the second to bottom line of bass clef, to Bb on middle line of treble clef (at pitch) 2 octaves.

          Despite the amount of rehearsing the choirs involved in the actual performance had done, it was clear all the singers were still counting furiously, and finding it hard to lift heads from scores - with the exception of the children's choirs who were singing from memory (particular kudos to the five or six young ladies from the choir in purple shirts - City of Birmingham Youth Choir? - who had a brief soli towards the end)
          Last edited by Guest; 18-07-11, 12:03.

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          • RobertLeDiable

            #95
            David Nice is not a fan:
            The Arts Desk’s team of professional critics offer unrivalled review coverage, in-depth interviews and features on popular music, classical, art, theatre, comedy, opera, comedy and dance. Dedicated art form pages, readers’ comments, What’s On and our user-friendly theatre and film recommendations

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            • Chris Newman
              Late Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 2100

              #96
              I don't feel much in common with David Nice except his observation about prominent senior tenors which was noticeable on the radio. The air freshener and garlic whims were rather childish.

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              • Alf-Prufrock

                #97
                The view that JohnB and I have propounded that the sound is damagingly devalued by excessive dynamic limiting is not a popular one here, it seems, since posters have been able to listen to the broadcast with great pleasure. I begin to doubt my own measurements and hearing when this happens, and I will give the symphony another hearing tomorrow, concentrating as much as I can on the music.

                But I have just looked at my recording of Elgar 1 with Runnicles from 2010. There is not a hint of that scale of dynamic limiting there. Fortissimos are distinguishable from fortes. There must have been some limiting, to cater for domestic environments, but it was obviously subtle and suitable. The sound for ALL the Proms so far this year, I repeat, is NOT appropriate!!

                And I have noted since I first wrote on this thread that Bryn, no less, is equally exercised on the matter. (See the thread on Concert 1.) That is decisive for me in deciding who is right !!

                Just in case I am not clear enough, the BBC are broadcasting Proms this year differently from the way they broadcast them last year. And doing it worse!
                Last edited by Guest; 18-07-11, 14:50. Reason: Additional point for clarification

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                • johnb
                  Full Member
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 2903

                  #98
                  Alf,

                  In all fairness, only Proms 1 and 4 have been affected by the severe limiting, not Proms 2 and 3. There was always going to be a need for some dynamic range processing during the Gothic but IMO it was badly implemented. Also, it just might be that it was used in Prom 1 as a test run for Prom 4 and we will see no more of it in future concerts. (Clutching at straws.)

                  There was a less important "curiosity" with Prom 3. The sound of the ambient background in the hall swelled massively and intrusively during the quiet passages. Presumably someone was fiddling with the sliders or there was some kind of automatic dynamic level processing.

                  Comment

                  • David Underdown

                    #99
                    Are you sure it wasn't just the rain hammering on the roof (that was certainly audible in the hall and came and went. For a moment I thought the organ had returned to its pre-rebuild wheezing, until I realised the true cause)

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                    • Chris Newman
                      Late Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 2100

                      I agree with the complaints about volume levels and have made my opinions known but Edward Blakeman who is in charge of outside broadcast music gave me bland technical excuses about there being limitations of radio bandwidth which supposedly are not as wide as on CD. I noticed the "squeezed" volume range when listening to last year's Proms and it is certainly true this year. It is a recent problem and never worried me with FM. I hope that someone from the tech deprtment at the BBC reads this thread and give a more fullsome reoly than that I was given.

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                      • Serial_Apologist
                        Full Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 37714

                        Originally posted by Wilus View Post
                        Here are the reviews. Edward Seckerson comes nearest to my own view, but I love Ivan Hewett's notion of the Gothic as a great mythical sea-beast!

                        Brabbins and his hordes did a magnificent job, but the Gothic Symphony is no spurned masterpiece, writes Andrew Clements




                        http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...l-2315646.html
                        Re the Guardian reviewer: Schmidt's Book of the Seven Seals wasn't even composed for another 10 years after the Gothic

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                        • johnb
                          Full Member
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 2903

                          Originally posted by David Underdown View Post
                          Are you sure it wasn't just the rain hammering on the roof (that was certainly audible in the hall and came and went. For a moment I thought the organ had returned to its pre-rebuild wheezing, until I realised the true cause)
                          David, thank you for the explanation. You are probably right.

                          Comment

                          • Chris Newman
                            Late Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 2100

                            Originally posted by Wilus View Post
                            Here are the reviews. Edward Seckerson comes nearest to my own view, but I love Ivan Hewett's notion of the Gothic as a great mythical sea-beast!

                            Brabbins and his hordes did a magnificent job, but the Gothic Symphony is no spurned masterpiece, writes Andrew Clements




                            http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-en...l-2315646.html
                            I notice ES managed to get the BBC Scottish orchestra to join in. What fun.

                            Comment

                            • RobertLeDiable

                              Edward Blakeman who is in charge of outside broadcast music gave me bland technical excuses about there being limitations of radio bandwidth which supposedly are not as wide as on CD.
                              Surely he's right, isn't he? I had always understood the transmitters could only cope with a certain dynamic range, which is much less than on a CD.

                              And as I said before, the engineers can't have had nearly as much rehearsal time in which to sort out the balance for the thing as they ideally would have needed.

                              Comment

                              • EdgeleyRob
                                Guest
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 12180

                                Originally posted by Alison View Post
                                A big cheer for Mr Brabbins. Well done sir !
                                A big cheer to everyone involved.What a fantastic creation this piece is.

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