Brian Gothic @ 2011 Proms?

[Roehre]

Instead of picking holes in my typing can please acknowledge that the original point I was trying to make was at least a valid one.

Going back to my point about the 1920's being an experimental one from the symphonic point of view, Brian's 'Gothic' is very much of its 'period' in one sense and also looks back to the large scale late romantic symphonies of its immediate past. Many of the Gothic's contemporary symphonies were unusual in design though not on the same enormous scale of course. One only needs to think of the compressed one movement form of Sibelius 7, the strange lopsided two movement form of Prokofiev 2, the more balanced two movement Nielsen 5, or the rather novel 2nd & 3rd symphonies of Prokofiev. Brian's own continual solution to the problems of symphonic construction throughout his long composing life is a fascinating one and he doesn't always seem to get much credit for this.

And the very compact symphonies by Pijper (nos.2 and 3) and Webern e.g.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Exactly Roehre, even Bax's symphonies are hardly conventional in form. It was certainly a decade in which composers experimented with form before either taking forward the most successful aspects or deciding what they tried wasn't really for them or was unsatisfactory in the next two decades.

[maestro267]

Just to inform the messageboard community that a few hours ago, the first complete performance in 30 years of Havergal Brian's 'Gothic' Symphony No. 1 took place at the Queensland Performing Arts Centre in Brisbane, Australia. This was the first ever performance outside Britain, and it involved over 600 musicians.

An incredible feat, if you ask me. As a side point, 'hands up' if you've heard the Gothic Symphony?

[Bryn]

I have only heard it twice in concert, both at the RAH, both from the Gallery, and on each occasion the four separate bands were grouped into just two, so I have yet to hear it 'live' in its full original orchestration. As to hearing it via recordings, I have both those performances already mentioned (the Boult in the Testament transfer of a received FM broadcast, and the Schmidt from a source somewhat earlier in the capture train). Then there's the orchestra only movements as conducted by Charles Groves, and finally the 'performance' edited together on a pair of Marco Polo CDs (since re-issued on the Naxos label). Of those, the Schmidt is marginally my favourite, with Groves coming a close second for the first three movements, then Boult, and honourably bringing up the rear, the Lenárd.

[lordmhoram]

RW: "[...]Thanks too for the Havergal Brian suggestion - you are not the first to suggest it and I promise to bear it in mind in the future. I have heard the Boult recording (and others) and was present at the Ole Schmidt performance in 1980. "

Of course, it has to be remembered that RW was the manager of the British Music Information Centre at the time of the Ole Schmidt Gothic. (I'm still baffled as to why his obvious previous enthusiasm for British music turned so lukewarm.)

[lordmhoram]

As a side point, 'hands up' if you've heard the Gothic Symphony?

Yes, twice: once at the RAH, and one at the Victoria Hall, Handley (Brian's birthplace. Think that was 1978 - the forces were so large that the audience was squeezed into the central part of the Dress Circle.) (BTW I also attended the BBC recording of no.2 at Maida Vale, and of no.4 (Das Siegeslied) at the Ally Pally (1974). Siegeslied remains my favourite of the first four: now THAT would be a work to do at the Proms!)

[Petrushka]

Yes, twice: once at the RAH, and one at the Victoria Hall, Hanley (Brian's birthplace. Think that was 1978 - the forces were so large that the audience was squeezed into the central part of the Dress Circle.)

Same here, your lordship! The Victoria Hall, Hanley, performance was on May 21 1978 and I was in the Circle close to the sopranos. The forces were so huge that the conductor amost had his back pinned against the rear wall and was invisible to most of the audience. It was an entirely amateur performance and used the full forces specified by the composer for the first time. Two years later almost to the day I was at the Ole Schmidt performance at the RAH. Both utterly unforgettable.

[bluestateprommer]

'The Australian' article on HB's "Gothic"

Found this article from The Australian about the recent Brisbane performance of HB's Gothic Symphony, a few days in advance of it:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/gothic-revival-a-long-time-coming/story-e6frg6z6-1225972340333

Get this bit:

"The orchestra, performing for no remuneration.....

Now that's dedication.

Regarding the scheduled July 17 performance at a certain large round building in a certain city on the Thames, I may have to think summer vacation plans after all. This assumes, of course, that I'm still financially solvent at that time.

[Bryn]

I have just emailed Radio 3 via their "Contact Us" system to suggest a re-broadcast of their 1983 production of The Tigers on a Thursday afternoon in the run-up to the Prom performance of The Gothic. How about others doing likewise? Even if/though it might seem unlikely to prompt such a re-broadcast before the Proms, perhaps it would at least serve to remind them that it is there in the archive.

[bluestateprommer]

more from Down Under

Some more recent articles from 'The Australian' on the recent Brisbane performance of the "Gothic" Symphony:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/g...-1225974644255 (no idea if the young lady in the picture is related to Kylie)

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/sleeping-juggernaut-comes-to-life-with-a-mighty-concerted-effort/story-e6frg8n6-1225976789146

Note this passage:

"The bold venture by Gary Thorpe, manager of classical music station 4MBS, to stage it has paid dividends, generating local interest and international support, especially from Britain's Havergal Brian Society. The symphony will be featured in next year's BBC Proms in London.

The scratch orchestra and choir - comprising volunteer Queensland Youth Orchestra alumni, QPAC choristers and a children's choir - had a crash-or-crash-through commitment to the performance that was exhilarating, and earned a standing ovation."

http://www.couriermail.com.au/ipad/review-havergal-brians-symphony-no1/story-fn6ck8la-1225976720044

Harper is clearly admiring of the fact that it got done at all, but he still had his critical ears alert, good intentions of the performers aside.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It seems a little strange that more is known about the 2011 PRoms in Queensland than in Britain.

[bluestateprommer]

Well, for E.A. (prior post), to be somewhat fair, I think it's not so much that more is known about the putative 2011 Prom 3 in Queensland as that more is openly talked about it there than in the UK, since staff at the Proms and the RAH are obviously sworn to secrecy about overtly talking about the 2011 Proms season until the official info release in April or so. That's actually kind of smart on the Proms management's part, because it keeps people like us talking about it. Clearing up the question right away removes the mystery and the reason to remain concerned (at least until the big event gets really close).

BTW, just found a blog post from one of the singers in the Brisbane performance, tenor Luke Venables:

http://ninjachicken.wordpress.com/2010/12/27/havergal-brian-the-wrap-up-of-the-gothic/

[bluestateprommer]

One of the musicians in the HB 'Gothic' performance in Brisbane, John Szkutko, posted a blog about the preparations for the concert:

http://gothictuba.blogspot.com/

He mentions one fellow who even traveled from the USA for the event, although apparently the USA fellow had tried out for the orchestra, but didn't get it. Fortunately, he got to hear the concert live in person.

[Simon B]

I've heard further corroboration for this "rumour" now... The orchestra forces will be the combined BBCNOW and BBCCO plus lots of extras in brass and percussion. There was some vagueness about whether it's the Saturday or Sunday of the opening weekend. The Sunday makes sense to me since the many choirs would then have a chance to rehearse together on the Saturday.

[bluestateprommer]

time of Prom 3, July 17, 2011

Regarding Prom 3, per another memo from Eltham College, the start time for this performance is 7 PM (emphasis mine):

http://www.eltham-college.org.uk/Music/MusicNoticesandCommunications/Spring_2011/Choir_arrangements_Summer_2011.pdf

Thur 14 July 2.00 p.m. / ALL TREBLES + Supplementary trebles Senior School Music School
College Trebles (and Supplementary Trebles), rehearsal for BBC Proms at Eltham College

Fri 15 July / ALL TREBLES + Supplementary trebles
5.30 p.m. College Trebles depart for Proms rehearsal at Alexandra Palace – bus from College
7.00 p.m. Rehearsal for BBC Proms
9.30 p.m. approx. Return to Eltham College and parents collect boys

Sun 17 July / ALL TREBLES + Supplementary trebles
9.30 a.m. College Trebles depart for BBC Proms rehearsal at Royal Albert Hall – bus from College
11.00 a.m. College Trebles rehearsal, Royal Albert Hall
7.00 p.m. College Trebles in BBC Proms performance, Royal Albert Hall

So presumably the pre-Prom talk will be around 5 PM or so.