HIP but not HIPP...our Nige at the Proms

[french frank]

Too many prefer Grade V beginners with rasping sounds and horrible bulges!! Makes you wonder what future there is for classical music when all these precious people who love HIP kick the hip replacement bucket.

I think it's a matter of differing tastes rather than superior/inferior discernment

As I neither have a television nor read the papers I am shielded from such excesses which would - I'm sure - outrage me, should my delicate eau de rose sensibility ever encounter them. I have just Grumiaux and John Holloway playing the Bach sonatas and partitas. Holloway suits me fine: I seek no other.

By the way, perhaps we should have a separate discussion as to whether professional musicians necessarily have a more profound understanding, a deeper appreciation, of the music than a mere listener who plays no instrument ... .

[Ariosto]

Professional musicians never have a profound understanding about anything. That's why we have conductors. We are merely navvies moving one pice of **** to another place, and then putting it back again under superior instructions from our betters. We know our place and never question anything the great public out there says or thinks. We are but humble servants.

[vinteuil]

By the way, perhaps we should have a separate discussion as to whether professional musicians necessarily have a more profound understanding, a deeper appreciation, of the music than a mere listener who plays no instrument ... .

... in another field - litrachur - I think it is the case that authors are often the worst judges of their work - it often takes others, critics, and often people many generations later, to find out all sorts of things in a text that the poor originator wotted not of....

[ardcarp]

I had no idea my original (and innocent) post would draw such heavy irony:

Professional musicians never have a profound understanding about anything. That's why we have conductors. We are merely navvies moving one pice of **** to another place, and then putting it back again under superior instructions from our betters. We know our place and never question anything the great public out there says or thinks. We are but humble servants

I suppose NK's desire to shock (his appearance, his mode of speech, his cross-over cred and his views in the Guardian article) is, for some difficult to reconcile with his genius.

Neither did I intend to start another HIPP/non-HIPP slanging match. BOTH ways of playing Baroque music are just great for me, and let's just accept that one man's meat, etc, etc.

May I just make a comment in support of conductors? Yes, some are no doubt over-paid egotists. But shall we just examine the Last Night of the Proms? Edward Gardiner [hope I've spelled him correctly] held together vast forces (including audience) in a piece by PMD, Bartok's MM, a concerto and much else besides, probably with very limited rehearsal time. He did a great job, and for me ticked all the boxes including that of making his intentions very clear. If anyone thinks that the evening could have passed off successfully without a conductor is living in cloud-cuckoo land!

Just a wicked thought. How would the Last Night have passed off with NK in charge of proceedings?
Bare peng I reckon, man.

[MrGongGong]

I don't think he has a "desire to shock" at all
some of the Bufton Tufton brigade somehow don't like the idea of someone who appears a little different
I'm not a great fan of the whole violin virtuoso thing but several musicians I know who have worked with him (in Classical orchestras) hold him in really high esteem.

[Nick Armstrong]

some of the Bufton Tufton brigade somehow don't like the idea of someone who appears a little different

Personally I don't like the idea (still less, the reality) of someone who looks, speaks and behaves like a complete tosser.

[johnb]

Some years ago there was a Radio 3 programme on NK, looking at his going into his development as a musician. He came out as a much more sympathetic figure than I was expecting. He was very unhappy indeed at the Juilliard, perhaps partly because he was very young (in his mid teens) when he went. It looks as though he retreated into the jazz scene as an escape.

Like many others, I find his 'grunge' persona very off-putting but I respect Ariosto's judgement and it's about time I tried to lay my prejudices aside.

[Anna]

some of the Bufton Tufton brigade somehow don't like the idea of someone who appears a little different

Personally I don't like the idea (still less, the reality) of someone who looks, speaks and behaves like a complete tosser.

Caliban, that's a rather harsh statement about the Bufton Tufton brigade!

[Nick Armstrong]

Caliban, that's a rather harsh statement about the Bufton Tufton brigade!

Boom boom !!

[french frank]

but several musicians I know who have worked with him (in Classical orchestras) hold him in really high esteem.

You mean, as a musician? I don't think there's a great deal of controversy about that, is there? But do the musicians you know also follow his Oxfam example and shoot off their mouths about every musical topic on which they happen to hold a strong opinion?

There are two schools of thought on HIPP, of which his is only one. I don't think he should be admired because of his view: he can afford to upset people.

[MrGongGong]

Personally I don't like the idea (still less, the reality) of someone who looks, speaks and behaves like a complete tosser.

i rest my case your honour

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/03_01/promsDM0403_468x320.jpg

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

I think there is a problem here, because NK played all the Bach standing rock solid, eyes closed most of the time, and almost faultlessly from memory, and delivered a very very sincere version which is probably unique to him.

It was only later that he did the showman act, and even then I found it entertaining.

well said ariosto!

[Nick Armstrong]

i rest my case your honour

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/200...03_468x320.jpg

I'm inclined to agree, Mr Two-Gongs. I need hear no further from the Prosecution. Do the Defence wish to say anything?