HIP but not HIPP...our Nige at the Proms

[Ariosto]

For those who (like Ariosto, apparently) didn't read it, Kennedy's broadside against the entire musical world, and other broken-down no-hopers who can't find third position, can be read here in The Guardian.

I most certainly DID read it (here you are making assumptions yet again) and I posted that I agreed with it.

"Kennedy, who is acknowledged as one of the world's leading violin virtuosos, is somewhat unusual among musicians in his willingness to speak frankly. In 2008, he dismissed star conductors as egocentrics more interested in money and prestige than developing a musical relationship with an orchestra. He even questioned whether conducting was an art, asking: "Why would you want to stand there waving a stick when you could be playing an instrument?"

I agree totally.

"Kennedy is also withering when it comes to violinists from the influential New York school of Ivan Galamian, whom he accused of sacrificing soul in favour of technical virtuosity. "What they lacked was rhythmic ingenuity, dynamic sophistication and architectural awareness," he said, adding up to a pervasive "self-satisfied smugness of sound".

Well, he should know, he studied there and shared a room with a past friend of mine, and he's not the only one by far who has things to say about I G and D De Lay.

But what do you know about such things, Mr Gando, I ask?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

By all means discuss Mr Kennedy's views, playing style, etc., but please try not to beat each other up in the process.



???

[Ariosto]

By all means discuss Mr Kennedy's views, playing style, etc., but please try not to beat each other up in the process.



???

If you think that's beating each other up should should be here on a Saturday night after the pubs shut. It took ten of 'em to hold me down the other nite.

[Al R Gando]

PS Are you a string player? An orchestral msusician? Do you play the D minor Partita?

None of which has any bearing at all on this discussion. You need to mind your manners, Ariosto.

It took ten of 'em to hold me down the other nite.

Ah, that sounds more like the usual way you "discuss" the nuances of playing Bach's unaccompanied partitas.

[Richard Tarleton]

He is no less critical of contemporary Russian interpreters, arguing that the sense of reflective inwardness appropriate to Bach is lost in performances more appropriate to a musical showman such as Paganini.

I wonder to whom he was referring here? I sat in the second row centre in the Barbican for a performance of the D Minor Partita by Vengerov - he gave two recitals of Bach, Beethoven and Brahms on successive nights in 2004. A performance of great profundity and inner (and outer) stillness which went to the heart of the piece. Showmanship entirely absent, except where it belonged, in his encores.

Only 3 sets on my shelves - Milstein, Josef Suk and Mullova's 2009 version. I often play the Mullova. I'm a plucker and own the music for the Segovia transcription for guitar and occasionally try to pick my way through the easier bits as a form of relaxation (no hope of ever playing it).

I can't get past Nige's persona I'm afraid, I can't watch him and it gets worse when he speaks.

[Ariosto]

I wonder to whom he was referring here? I sat in the second row centre in the Barbican for a performance of the D Minor Partita by Vengerov - he gave two recitals of Bach, Beethoven and Brahms on successive nights in 2004. A performance of great profundity and inner (and outer) stillness which went to the heart of the piece. Showmanship entirely absent, except where it belonged, in his encores.

Only 3 sets on my shelves - Milstein, Josef Suk and Mullova's 2009 version. I often play the Mullova. I'm a plucker and own the music for the Segovia transcription for guitar and occasionally try to pick my way through the easier bits as a form of relaxation (no hope of ever playing it).

I can't get past Nige's persona I'm afraid, I can't watch him and it gets worse when he speaks.

Then I think that as you say, you have the problem. But of course, we can speak as we find.

Of the three Bach recordings you mention, I'm not sure if I've heard Mullover, or rather I probably have but can't remember it. I admire Suk greatly but have never heard his Bach.

But Milstein has always, along with Menuhin, been in my opinion, the Bach performances one measures all other Bach interpretations against.

I have mixed feelings about Venegerov. I have to admire his playing in many ways and his huge personality. I have heard him play Bach badly, but maybe that was a one off.

I'm going to ignore Mr Gando's comments as they appear not to be worthy of an answer, and he does seem to be hung up on "nuances."

[Al R Gando]

I'm going to ignore Mr Gando's comments as they appear not to be worthy of an answer, and he does seem to be hung up on "nuances."

Well, thank goodness for that! The musical opinions of "CODSWALLOP"-shouters aren't worth fourpence anyhow. 'Ooo needs dem bloody nuances, anyhow, eh? Took ten of 'em to 'old me dahn!

[Mr Pee]

Give me Vengerov over Kennedy any day. There's no comparison! I've always found Kennedy's tone rather thin and unpleasant. I never understood the hype that built up around him, or agreed with the rave reviews for his Elgar concerto disc. But then - controversy alert-I've never really liked Menuhin's style either, so I suppose that's my taste. But at least Menuhin didn't adopt a faux-Cockney persona and act like a clown.

I'm not sure if I've heard Mullover

I certainly haven't. I've heard MullOVA....

[Ariosto]

Give me Vengerov over Kennedy any day. There's no comparison! I've always found Kennedy's tone rather thin and unpleasant. I never understood the hype that built up around him, or agreed with the rave reviews for his Elgar concerto disc. But then - controversy alert-I've never really liked Menuhin's style either, so I suppose that's my taste. But at least Menuhin didn't adopt a faux-Cockney persona and act like a clown.



I certainly haven't. I've heard MullOVA....

Sorry about me spelling mr pee - I ALWAYS get Mullova mixed up with PULLOVER. Maybe it's her wooly sound ...

Last point ever, Mr Gando, I would just like to thank you for reporting me, keep up the splendid work.

[Al R Gando]

I certainly haven't. I've heard MullOVA....

She obviously ain't played dahn 'is pub.

[Richard Tarleton]

Of the three Bach recordings you mention, I'm not sure if I've heard Mullover, or rather I probably have but can't remember it. I admire Suk greatly but have never heard his Bach.

But Milstein has always, along with Menuhin, been in my opinion, the Bach performances one measures all other Bach interpretations against.

I think Mullova has recorded the sonatas and partitas twice - this is the second of her two versions, recorded (so the sleeve tells me) on her 1750 Guadagnini with gut strings and baroque bow. I don't know if the Suk version ever made its way onto CD, I have it on LPs.

If Nige's persona was genuine it would be easier, but it's so palpably assumed, along with the carefully distressed clothing. I'm with Mr Pee on this one. There's clearly a mismatch between his playing and his persona. Fortunately there are plenty of alternatives!

[Serial_Apologist]

The bass player was wonderful, and NK's playing ws a lot of fun. He appreciates other real musicians as well, and his sense of humour is better than a lot of so called "comedians."

There is no British player (or non-British for that matter) that could stand there and give such a committed and musicianly performance of the Unnacompanied Bach. Even if I very occassionally would have played the odd bar differently myself, I respect his point of view.

Kennedy can play any British violinist in the last 40+ years into the ground, and the other's (including some dire foreigners) are only comparitively at about ASBRSM grade III level.

I've just got a secondhand copy of his CD made in 1990 of the Brahms concerto with Tendstedt, and I'm really knocked out by it. Two really outstanding musicians collaborating and Brahms is the winner. Great performance.

And I totally agree with Nigel's criticism of HIP and also of conductors. His is a voice in the wilderness.

Is that me being charged with elitism and snobbery? I love Nigel's Berg violin concerto and have no problem with his Romantic repertoire if it could be so described. And as one who was el(ectro)cuted for placement as the main treble soloist in the school choir aged 11 there ain't nuffink wrong wiv 'is hacksent neever!

[Richard Tarleton]

And as one who was el(ectro)cuted for placement as the main treble soloist in the school choir aged 11 there ain't nuffink wrong wiv 'is hacksent neever!

The trouble is, it's not his - he's undergone a process which was the reverse of the one you went through at 11, S_A

[Al R Gando]

Last point ever, Mr Gando, I would just like to thank you for reporting me, keep up the splendid work.

You're most welcome! And now I must scuttle, because I have a Dress Rehearsal this afternoon, then we're hoping to make it to a concert my friend's conducting tonight. Do give my best regards to all your mates at your pub. Lan' Of 'Ope An' Gloree, eh? I'm sure you'll be leading the sing-along in the bar!

[Al R Gando]

I think Mullova has recorded the sonatas and partitas twice - this is the second of her two versions, recorded (so the sleeve tells me) on her 1750 Guadagnini with gut strings and baroque bow.

The Mullova recording rarely gets shelved-back into the cd-racks at my house, and is usually lurking around the cd-player :) Although the gut strings do certainly make a different sound, it's the bow which shapes the phrasing and articulation that determine this insightful and engaging performance.

Here's

showing how bowing (with a baroque bow) informs the phrasing. (YouTube). No punk haircut. No outrageous clothes. No gobby self-promotion. Just the music She's greatly missed.