Can you get to the Proms?

[Panjandrum]

I'm getting a bit fed up with reading all these comments about how bad the radio sound is. If you don't like the sound on the radio, come in person to the concerts. And don't say that Yorkshire is too far away; we have regular Prommers from Germany, Sweden, the USA, Australia and New Zealand, to name but a few countries. If they can do it, so can you.

Don't you think that the RAH would be a teensy weeny bit cramped if we all came down en masse? Or, perhaps you think they would lift the roof off to fit the additional 200,000 punters in? Or, perhaps they will decamp to the park next door and set up an impromptu Proms in the Park?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My avatar consists of two budgies, one male and one female.

I beg your pardon. I missed the one on the right.

[David Underdown]

While I'd agree that the ideal is to attend in person, and I continued to manage to attend pretty regularly during the 6 seasons when I was living and working in Peterborough - I accept that I was very lucky that personal circumstances allowed me the freedom to do so. However, it does seem to be a false dichotomy to say either try and attend in person or you've no right to complain about the broadcast sound, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the BBC to provide adequate broadcast sound quality

[Ferretfancy]

I agree with you, David, listeners at home certainly deserve the best quality, which I suspect is not always being provided by the outside contractors who have replaced the experienced BBC staff who used to do the Proms year after year.
I do however detect a slightly dog in the mangerish whiff from a few contributors who seem to delight in knocking the Prommers in the front row. Can I gently point out that there are some season ticket holders who immediately make for the rear of the Arena because they prefer it there, and a large number of us who like to be near what used to be the fountain. We're quite a congenial lot actually, but then you know that. The charity collection organised by front rowers has reached about 60k so far,so the audience good will is still flourishing.

[Al R Gando]

Apparently BBC World News no longer have to bother too much about providing decent coverage of international stories. After all, anyone who was seriously interested would just go to the trouble-spots in person to find out for themselves.

[BetweenTheStaves]

Just because one hears German spoken among the audience or Swedish or whatever, doesn't necessarily imply that these people have travelled to the UK specifically to come to a Prom. They could just as easily be on long-term attachment or even living here. Even if they were on a visit, just as likely that they are here on business (ie hotel and travel paid for) as on pleasure. So hearing a foreign language is no arbiter. There is no doubt about it, you don't have to live too far outside the central conurbation to find that your last train home leaves just that bit too early. I have been to one Prom this year staying at a friend's house in Newbury. Even then the return journey from Paddington to Newbury was a bit of an epic with bus replacements and we didn't get back until around 2am. £25 return train fare plus my diesel cost to drive from Malvern to Newbury suddenly pushes the price of the whole trip well over £100.

So I rely on a decent quality radio programme.

[David Underdown]

That is true. But, I know the people Jane refers to as well, and they really do come specifically for the Proms.

[cavatina]

"Poor" is a relative term, and it all depends on your priorities. When I was an impoverished student, so many nights I remember making the choice between buying dinner and getting the $5 student rush ticket at the Philharmonic. I chose music every time, which is how I got in the habit of going to concerts on an empty stomach.

After I graduated I was still fairly broke, so I had a volunteer internship of sorts with an artistic administrator in exchange for all the concert tickets I possibly wanted. I ended up going out most nights of the week-- which, incidentally, is how I developed a preference for the extreme front left long before the Proms, since that's where they always put me. Old habits die hard, I suppose.

There are some who live in or near London who assume that Boristown is the centre of the universe. They are wrong.

Really? There is no right or wrong, it's all about individual lifestyle habits and preferences. Personally, I can't imagine living in a fourth-rate city in England any more than I could imagine being stuck in some ghastly hick burg in the middle of nowhere in America. Give me Manhattan or London any day, but to each his own.

[BetweenTheStaves]

That is true. But, I know the people Jane refers to as well, and they really do come specifically for the Proms.

Then they are very fortunate to (a) have the time and (b) the disposable income.

[PhilipT]

Just because one hears German spoken among the audience or Swedish or whatever, doesn't necessarily imply that these people have travelled to the UK specifically to come to a Prom. They could just as easily be on long-term attachment or even living here.

And the moon could be made of green cheese and there could be fairies at the bottom of my garden. Talk to the Swede in question and he'll happily tell you, in clear if accented and halting English, that he lives in Gothenburg. But he does also visit Buxton and Glyndebourne on some of his visits here.

[Anna]

"Poor" is a relative term, and it all depends on your priorities.

Indeed, that is true but someone on job seekers allowance or the basic state pension or minimum wage doesn't have that luxury to prioritise do they? According to figures given by posters here the average cost to an out-of-towner (Wiltshire, Worcs, Yorkshire etc) is between £100-£150 per concert which is why a decent radio 3 broadcast is necessary.

Personally, I can't imagine living in a fourth-rate city in England any more than I could imagine being stuck in some ghastly hick burg in the middle of nowhere in America. Give me Manhattan or London any day, but to each his own.

I have no idea which cities in England you would classify as fourth-rate, or why. I happily live in what you would call a ghastly hick burg in the middle of nowhere in Wales. It's lovely. If I didn't live in Wales and had to live in England it would be Bristol (that's probably about 10th-rate on your list)

[BetweenTheStaves]

And the moon could be made of green cheese and there could be fairies at the bottom of my garden. Talk to the Swede in question and he'll happily tell you, in clear if accented and halting English, that he lives in Gothenburg. But he does also visit Buxton and Glyndebourne on some of his visits here.

Not sure why you posted this as (a) my original point is still just as valid and (b) the fact that some Promenaders do, in fact, come over from Sweden etc has already been addressed by another. Still comes down to disposable income and time.

[gurnemanz]

We live in N Wilts (Wootton Bassett - soon to be ennobled to royal status like the Albert Hall) and have no difficulty attending Proms. We have only been once this year so far (Das klagende Lied with Brahms violin) but the opportunity is always there. Although we could go by train from Swindon, it would be more expensive, slower and less convenient than going by car. It is mostly motorway. Google maps says it is 81.9 miles, taking 1.33 hrs and costing £15.72. Getting there takes longer than that due to traffic and you have to build in slack but afterwards the roads are fairly empty and you can easily be back by midnight. It is not difficult to park free in Queen's Gate. Total cost for two + Prom tickets = £25.72.

[french frank]

Personally, I can't imagine living in a fourth-rate city in England any more than I could imagine being stuck in some ghastly hick burg in the middle of nowhere in America. Give me Manhattan or London any day, but to each his own.

Crumbs! Some of us hicks have to live in fourth-rate cities (10th-rate by Anna's standards! ). So that should raise the hackles of a fair number of UK cits.

I have been to one Prom. It cost £5 standing in the Gallery. I enjoyed it. But the entire outing cost about £150 for that one 2-hour concert + about 8 hours, walking, bussing, trains and tubes.

[The country would grind to a halt if we all 'chose' (supposing we had the choice) to live either in London or Simon's little Derbyshire village.]

[amateur51]

Someone has already made the point (was it Ferret? - apols to whomsoever) that the principal problem is that the BBC no longer broadcasts the Proms directly - it has been 'outsourced' (dread term)

What needs to happen is for someone in Radio 3 to talk to an old BBC outside broadcast specialist about exactly what is wrong with the current set-up, from balances to spotlighting to the HD failure, or to get the old hand to do it on behalf of the BBC.

And before someone mutters 'budgets' they need to consider that the furore on this thread and others is in fact a reputational disaster for BBC Radio 3.

But there again, if people are striving to drive the market generally, and Radio 3 specifically downwards, maybe this would be music to their ears