Can you get to the Proms?

[PhilipT]

I can see both sides of this argument, and it's a shame I seem to be in such a minority. I Prom, I don't live in London, and so far this season I've spent more on accommodation, and more on food and drink in the Hall, than the cost of my season ticket. By the end of the season the cost of rail tickets will also be over that amount. It's not cheap. But if the out-of-towners want some respect for their arguments then they ought to recognise firstly, that Jane didn't say that it was cheap, or easy, only that it can be done and is done by people with even more challenging journeys, and secondly, that there are Prommers who live in London who travel for live music as far afield as Glyndebourne, Southampton, the Edinburgh Festival, the Paris Opera, Bayreuth, Verona Arena, the New York Met ...

[Anna]

I can see both sides of this argument, and it's a shame I seem to be in such a minority. I Prom, I don't live in London, and so far this season I've spent more on accommodation, and more on food and drink in the Hall, than the cost of my season ticket. By the end of the season the cost of rail tickets will also be over that amount. It's not cheap. But if the out-of-towners want some respect for their arguments then they ought to recognise firstly, that Jane didn't say that it was cheap, or easy, only that it can be done ...

Indeed Philip, out-of-towners can do it - if they have the money (which was my point) I know plenty of people who are on low incomes or unemployed or just have the State Pension. For them an outlay on a cd is a major purchase, a meal out is more or less an impossibility. I don't know how much your annual Prom bill is, £500-£1000+?, none of my business, and if you can afford it then good for you but please don't categorize those who simply don't have any spare pennies to get up to London as not making an effort.

[PhilipT]

.. please don't categorize those who simply don't have any spare pennies to get up to London as not making an effort.

I didn't, and don't, but there are many who could make the effort and don't. I'm quite sure there are many thousands who enjoy listening to the Proms on the radio, thinking they wish they could be there and that they'd do it if only they lived in London. The point is that living in London is not a pre-requisite, as countless examples demonstrate.

My Prom budget is my annual holiday fund. That used to be one month's take-home pay, less now that I have a new job and can't get to the concerts after work any more.

BTW, someone I know, not very well, lives in South-East Wales and has attended two Proms so far this season for next to nothing. Honest. Oh, all right - he sings in the BBC National Chorus of Wales.

[Bryn]

I didn't, and don't, but there are many who could make the effort and don't.

I'm one of those tonight, but I do need sleep before working tomorrow.

[Vile Consort]

Getting back to Leeds after a prom is no joke either. You could risk booking for the 2200 train, but even that doesn't get into Leeds until 0219, and the safer 2330 doesn't arrive until 0246.

The last train on a Saturday is 2209, so probably not feasible at all. Sundays aren't too bad with the last train departing 2232 and arriving Leeds as early as 0130.

Then there's the hour's drive home, of course, all trains beyond Leeds having stopped around 11pm.

All this would necessitate taking two days off work!

[Panjandrum]

I didn't, and don't, but there are many who could make the effort and don't. I'm quite sure there are many thousands who enjoy listening to the Proms on the radio, thinking they wish they could be there and that they'd do it if only they lived in London. The point is that living in London is not a pre-requisite, as countless examples demonstrate.

Some of us could do; and could afford to do so now and again: however, we prefer to spend at least the daylight part of our free time enjoying social and sporting activities en plein air, doing our bit to reduce the burden on the NHS.

Personally, I like to listen to concerts at a time of my choosing, not when Auntie decides that, like a good boy, I should be sitting in some stifling auditorium when I could be enjoying a rubber of tennis or, to the bemusement of Estelle, the joy of leather on willow and the intoxicating aroma of linseed. Which is why I, like others, feel entitled to have a damned good moan that the promised 320kbps "HD" is, for some unaccountable reason, unavailable to listen again, despite various presenters assuring us to the contrary.

[makropulos]

I didn't, and don't, but there are many who could make the effort and don't. I'm quite sure there are many thousands who enjoy listening to the Proms on the radio, thinking they wish they could be there and that they'd do it if only they lived in London. The point is that living in London is not a pre-requisite, as countless examples demonstrate.

My Prom budget is my annual holiday fund. That used to be one month's take-home pay, less now that I have a new job and can't get to the concerts after work any more.

BTW, someone I know, not very well, lives in South-East Wales and has attended two Proms so far this season for next to nothing. Honest. Oh, all right - he sings in the BBC National Chorus of Wales.

You need to make your mind up about this: you say you didn't categorize people who can't afford to do this on a regular basis because of distance/expense, and then declare on the basis of no evidence that "many" people "could" make the effort. Nobody said living in London was a pre-requisite, but living at least closer - Home counties - or on a rail line that works sensibly after dark - makes the whole thing more feasible.

I object strongly to the implication that people should "make an effort" in order to earn some sort of right to comment on things like the sound quality of Proms broadcasts. This is the sort of pompous, information-free nonsense that was only ever spouted by a few Arena zealots back in the years when I used to have a season ticket. I hope that's not the trend again now.

But I'm very glad you put your holiday fund to such admirable use. I'm sure you're not assuming that everyone else can do the same thing - or indeed that they have the luxury of an "annual holiday fund" that can be spent in such a splendid way.

Keep enjoying the concerts - but please don't imagine that those of us who can't be there are often as you are somehow just failing to make the necessary effort. Anna's right - a lot of people (myself included) are simply not in a position to do that at the moment.

[Petrushka]

Most years the Proms is my annual holiday and, rather like PhilipT, I set up an Annual Proms Fund where the bulk of my horse race/lottery winnings end up.

By far the biggest bugbear for me is accommodation. How some places get away with such inflated prices is a mystery to me. Even Imperial College has got silly. The prospect of trying in 2012 in the middle of the Olympics fills me with dread.

[Simon]

Personally, I like to listen to concerts at a time of my choosing, not when Auntie decides that, like a good boy, I should be sitting in some stifling auditorium...

Absolutely.

The cost is but one factor. The convenience as regards the other commitments in one's life is, of course, another.

But the clincher, for me, is the venue. Who one earth wants to travel on a summer's evening from one of the most beautiful places in the world, which is where I'm fortunate enough to live, into some polluted, dirty, noisy, smelly, degenerate cesspit of glass, concrete, brick and tarmac, to sit/stand with 5000+ other people from all over the world, carrying an unknown number of diseases and emitting the foulest stenches - not limited to BO and curry but including those heavy perfumes some women seem to wear that are almost as offensive as cheap deodorants?

Try feeling in your ears or blowing your nose after a trip on the tube and a few hours in London. Black grime is what you'll see. Of course, it's not as easy to see the damage to your lungs...

[Tony Halstead]

hear, hear, well said ( written), Simon.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Incidentally, I like Jane's avatar, it's very pretty and feminine.

It looks like a male to me.

[amateur51]

Absolutely.

The cost is but one factor. The convenience as regards the other commitments in one's life is, of course, another.

But the clincher, for me, is the venue. Who one earth wants to travel on a summer's evening from one of the most beautiful places in the world, which is where I'm fortunate enough to live, into some polluted, dirty, noisy, smelly, degenerate cesspit of glass, concrete, brick and tarmac, to sit/stand with 5000+ other people from all over the world, carrying an unknown number of diseases and emitting the foulest stenches - not limited to BO and curry but including those heavy perfumes some women seem to wear that are almost as offensive as cheap deodorants?

Try feeling in your ears or blowing your nose after a trip on the tube and a few hours in London. Black grime is what you'll see. Of course, it's not as easy to see the damage to your lungs...

Quite right Simon!

Furriners are smelly and disease-ridden - tis a well-known fact, my beauty!

[Bryn]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/as5.pdf

I link to the above since my good friend John, who operates a carriage and pair, suffers badly from it on occasion. Not much chance of contracting it in the arena of the RAH. Then there's all that carcinogenic bracken to walk through at this time of year.

Try dragging yourself into the 21st Century SS!, 'The Smoke" ain't so smokey any more, what TfL's Low Emissions Zone and all. Indeed, it's just possible the area around the RAH has rather better air quality than obtains round your parts.

[amateur51]

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/as5.pdf

I link to the above since my good friend John, who operates a carriage and pair, suffers badly from it on occasion. Not much chance of contracting it in the arena of the RAH. Then there's all that carcinogenic bracken to walk through at this time of year.

Try dragging yourself into the 21st Century SS!, 'The Smoke" ain't so smokey any more, what TfL's Low Emissions Zone and all. Indeed, it's just possible the area around the RAH has rather better air quality than obtains round your parts.

Blimey Bryn!

The air quality around Simon's parts is the last thing I want to contemplate, thanking you!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There are some who live in or near London who assume that Boristown is the centre of the universe. They are wrong. The BBC makes the same assumption by holding all its Proms in London, even though the BBC is a national network. (Please don't even consider those so-called Proms in the Park.)
In Alpen Cloud Cuckooland the Proms would be a national classical music festival. There would be a concert in London every day - but only one. Some of these would be "late" or matinee Proms, but each would be supplement by a 7.00 p.m. Prom from another city. There would be two of these non-London Proms each week. As far as Radio 3 listeners would be concerned, there would be little change, as all concerts would continue to be broadcast live.

Let's involve the whole nation.