What is your verdict on this year's Proms?

[Norfolk Born]

Hi Demetrius! I'd like to echo salymap's sentiments. There's an awful lot of wonderful British music - some of it shamefully neglected - out there waiting for you. I hope that you'll 'report back' from time to time. (I doubt if you'll find much to interest you on BBC3 [sic], although the mildly amusing 'Gavin and Stacey' started there ).

[Demetrius]

BBC Radio 3 then. As a continental non-owner of a TV, i actually wasn't aware of a channel named BBC 3 until now doesn't look like I missed much though.

Thank you both for the warm welcome, I will try my very best.

[Chris Newman]

I have enjoyed this Prom season very much. A good spread of all things.

I am sure you are all fed up with my grumbles about the narrow volume widths on Radio 3 Broadcasts, where quiet is loud and loud is the same volume. Here is an example of the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE to my grumble: tonight I have been watching Claudio Abbado and his fabulous Lucerne Festival Orchestra playing Mozart Symphony 35 (Haffner) and Bruckner Symphony No 5 on Arte Live. The Mozart was delightful; HOWEVER the Bruckner is either almost inaudible or so loud it annoys other people upstairs. If you have good soundproofing do enjoy Abbado's glorious Bruckner. I made them upstairs suffer and probably next door too.

http://liveweb.arte.tv/fr/video/Lucerne_Festival_Orchestra_Mozart_Bruckner_Claudio_Abbado/

Thoroughly recommmend Arte Live for those with Prom withdrawal symptoms.

[Prommer]

Chris, I am looking forward to the Lucerners playing this very programme in London next month...

[pilamenon]

Reich - Music for 18 Musicians, Clapping Music, Electric Counterpoint

If asked to pick one concert from the season just passed, this would be it. Electric Counterpoint is such a beautiful piece, it was wonderful to hear it again. And Music for 18 Musicians - I just simply didn't want it to end. There seemed to be a really special atmosphere about this late-night Prom.

Overall, it was a less enthralling season for me than some, but it is such a diverse and remarkably long festival that we are very lucky to have, so gratitude where it's due. I would certainly not wish to see it cut back to a programme of 40 or so "proper" concerts of favourite orchestral warhorses, and the focus on Liszt was most welcome and enlightening - even if not everything appealed.

My other highlights were:
Prom 18 - BBCNOW/Fischer, including a sparkling Beethoven 7
Stephen Hough playing the 'Egyptian' piano concerto by Saint-Saens - great fun
The Simon Bolivar 'Resurrection' - for the celebratory atmosphere, and many special moments, including a sublime 'Urlicht' from Anna Larsson and the tremendous choir
Nigel Kennedy's solo Prom - a top-class musician (superb Bach) who also makes an entertaining compere.
An impressive surprise - Bax's Symphony No 2 - part of an excellent value concert from the RPO/Litton.
Handel´s Rinaldo - a thoroughly well thought out and executed production.
Graham Fitkin's Cello Concerto - best of the new works I heard, and hopefully it will be recorded by Yo Yo Ma. I enjoyed Kevin Volans's PC3, too.

The only Prom I didn't care for - seem to be in a minority here - was the Audience Choice Prom. Perhaps you had to be there, but a programme of lollipops with tedious intermissions while choices were made didn't make for great radio here.

I, too, had some concerns about sound quality in several Proms - especially the dampening of the orchestra during Elijah - but my main gripe is, no surprise here, the deteriorating R3 presentation, particularly the sacrifice of explanation of the works in favour of endless soundbites with performers about how marvellous they all were.

But overall, another most enjoyable summer of evening concerts.

[jayne lee wilson]

Hi Chris,

Sorry to keep coming back so irregularly to grumble at you! Busy times but thought I'd look in.

But your complaint about dynamic compression is directed at FM, I assume? Surely the HDs feed is Ok for dynamic range (except where the balancer seems to pull back manually!)? One or two people here (johnb, I think) measured it at 60db+ as I remember (?), not bad at all, and twice the max "allowed" to poor old FM these days. It certainly often feels quite satisfying to me, and I really do hate dynamic compression! Must add, though, I thought the results were even better from some other halls, (RFH, Llandaff etc.) before the Proms began. The letters section of November's HiFiNews/RR has some lengthy discussion of these things, but there's no online link. My own favourites from 2011, with Sound Quality as well as musical values in mind, would include:

Beethoven 1/7 BBC NOW/Fischer
Dvorak Cello Concerto/Smetana Ma Vlast BBCSO/Behlolavek
Liszt Dante Symphony/Noseda
Britten Piano Concerto/Grosvenor
Philharmonia/Salonen (whole concert)
Brahms 4/Haitink/ COE
Zinman Eroica
Bruckner 8/Van Zweden
Tchaikovsky 5/Honeck
Birtwistle Vn. Concerto

Meant to ask you before, Chris, how would you change things? Imagine yourself in control of the webcast/broadcast chain, microphones, everything! OK let's agree first - remove Optimod from the FM feed! Next?

Agreed with Pilamenon re. presentation!! Penny Gore should be given Katie Derham's role, Donald Macleod should do much more...

My live season begins as the proms end - 2 fantastic concerts in 4 days from RLPO/Petrenko, including Stravinsky Symphony in 3 Movements, Rachmaninov 3rd, Prokofiev 7th and even Enesco Suite no.2! I'm dazed and smiling...

Can we all re-convene re. SQ whenever there's a live RFH or Barbican effort, etc.? Like the old "soundings" in Gramophone...

I have enjoyed this Prom season very much. A good spread of all things.

I am sure you are all fed up with my grumbles about the narrow volume widths on Radio 3 Broadcasts, where quiet is loud and loud is the same volume. Here is an example of the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE to my grumble: tonight I have been watching Claudio Abbado and his fabulous Lucerne Festival Orchestra playing Mozart Symphony 35 (Haffner) and Bruckner Symphony No 5 on Arte Live. The Mozart was delightful; HOWEVER the Bruckner is either almost inaudible or so loud it annoys other people upstairs. If you have good soundproofing do enjoy Abbado's glorious Bruckner. I made them upstairs suffer and probably next door too.

http://liveweb.arte.tv/fr/video/Lucerne_Festival_Orchestra_Mozart_Bruckner_Claudio_Abbado/

Thoroughly recommmend Arte Live for those with Prom withdrawal symptoms.

[Ventilhorn]

Good evening all,

I've just picked this up by chance:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/proms/8747000/BBC-Proms-2011-highlights.html

How do these reviews compare with your own?(views, that is)

VH

[Chris Newman]

Hi Jayne,
I am not quite sure why we keep getting our wires crossed. Maybe it is because I do not understand all the technical jargon. I think I have explained three times that I do most of my listening (and watching) on my computer. That means if it is live I can get High Definition. If I miss the live event I use iPlayer which only seems to offer something lower. My main grumble appears to be what you boffins refer to as Optimod which levels everything out (in Message 63 I describe the opposite effect by courtesy of Swiss TV on Arte Live). However, I also get annoyed with the geeks in the caravans who love their sliders. Listen to the beginning of this from last Friday's Der Freischutz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/showcase/collections/p00b9xn8#/clips/p00kdhbs/in/collection/p00b9xn8

The engineer (presumably reading the score) becomes aware that there will be some gun shooting going on. What does he do? He/she damp down the entire thing. The volume of the chorus, orchestra, sound effects, Uncle Tom Cobley and all slide up and down. That happened on HD and the iPlayer. I am puzzled. We both seem to agree it goes on but you keep shooting me down for mentioning it. As far as I am concerned the mess is very typical of most Prom broadcasts this year.

If the link above does not play, it is available on the home page of Radio 3's website.

[salymap]

VH thanks. I didn't listen to all the Proms but enjoyed the Verdi Requiem in a deeply felt performance and must play it again soon, having it on CD. I also liked the Mahler Jugendorchester with Colin Davis and wish I'd listened to the 'Hooray for Hollywood', which I missed. I have a feeling that the latter will be shown on TV sometime in the winter though.

[Serial_Apologist]

VH thanks. I didn't listen to all the Proms but enjoyed the Verdi Requiem in a deeply felt performance and must play it again soon, having it on CD. I also liked the Mahler Jugendorchester with Colin Davis and wish I'd listened to the 'Hooray for Hollywood', which I missed. I have a feeling that the latter will be shown on TV sometime in the winter though.

I did hear that Prom, saly, but had to give up halfway through. Thank god I hadn't attended - it was rather like being offered extra helping after helping of sherry trifle by an over-zealous kindly cuddly aunt, when the first helping was more than enough, and having to find some polite excuse to decline.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

When I first saw the Proms prospectus back in May, I was tremendously disappointed by what seemed a rather unadventurous season of concerts: it really looked as if the bland old days of the late '90s, early '00s had returned. Well, more fool me: I was delighted by so many of the performances this year, most of them already mentioned by other posters, but I would add the Volkov Bruckner & Larchner concert and the Sinfonietta's Birtwistle Angel Fighting.

The one from which I got most pleasure was the Gothic: the first time for me that this work held together in a powerfully convincing way (Brabbins is a fantastic conductor).

Disappointments? Well, having enthused about Dusapin since he was featured at Huddersfield in 1996, his first piece seemed very tepid, and the Stan Kenton event lacked the controlled delirium that I love in the man's own recordings.

"Neglected English composers"? Some Dunstable would be nice. And a repeat performance under said Brabbins of La Terre est un Homme ... Maybe next year?

[Chris Newman]

Hi, ferneyhoughgeliebte,

Welcome back to the clan. Long time no hear.
Best wishes,
Chris (formerly Modest)

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm not trying to shoot you Chris! Just seeking clarity. Technical awareness can help to clarify subjective impressions.

With FM, "Optimod" is simply the name of the usual compressor used - only on FM; the limiting is audibly severe, if you switch (uncomfortably!) to the HD feed during a climactic passage the difference in level can be shocking!

On digital feeds, there would have to be of course a sound balancer who watches the levels, because raw digital overload can be very audible indeed. With feeds from Berlin Phil DCH, Arte and medici, the concerts usually come from purpose-built halls which one suspects are easier to manage in their dynamic predictability. They may employ more sophisticated equipment and level control too ( BBC costs!).
I can't imagine the balancers at the RAH proms are negligent or incompetent, just a little too cautious sometimes in a very untypical space; "Mars" from The Planets was quite ferocious at its recap, but the engineer there probably worried that the ending would overload and pulled it back a bit. What we need is an engineer's blog! or a technical diary from Rupert Brun, or... a Radio 3 documentary...

If you feel that the Proms sound was better managed in the 60s and 70s, it could be down to the possibly more benign overload characteristics of the analogue equipment used, the skilful contrivance of immediacy and a sense of power within analogue limitations, as per, say, Mercury recordings, or the absence of the acoustic mushrooms pre-1968... as I've said before the transfers to CD will represent an ideal sound at a higher resolution than FM or HDs today, probably using better digitising equipment too. Of course a good classical CD can have a better sound for many of these reasons, but I guess I try to be sympathetic to the Proms producers who do all this in real time, hoping they'll learn and improve as they go further into the digital age.

Hi Jayne,
I am not quite sure why we keep getting our wires crossed. Maybe it is because I do not understand all the technical jargon. I think I have explained three times that I do most of my listening (and watching) on my computer. That means if it is live I can get High Definition. If I miss the live event I use iPlayer which only seems to offer something lower. My main grumble appears to be what you boffins refer to as Optimod which levels everything out (in Message 63 I describe the opposite effect by courtesy of Swiss TV on Arte Live). However, I also get annoyed with the geeks in the caravans who love their sliders. Listen to the beginning of this from last Friday's Der Freischutz.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/showcase/collections/p00b9xn8#/clips/p00kdhbs/in/collection/p00b9xn8

The engineer (presumably reading the score) becomes aware that there will be some gun shooting going on. What does he do? He/she damp down the entire thing. The volume of the chorus, orchestra, sound effects, Uncle Tom Cobley and all slide up and down. That happened on HD and the iPlayer. I am puzzled. We both seem to agree it goes on but you keep shooting me down for mentioning it. As far as I am concerned the mess is very typical of most Prom broadcasts this year.

If the link above does not play, it is available on the home page of Radio 3's website.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Hi, forMod, nice to hear from you again and thanks for your kind greeting.

Best Wishes to you, too,
fhg.

[salymap]

Hi from me, fhg. I'm sure we must have talked on the old MBs and I am one of the few who has kept the same username.

Nice to see one of the old gang. best wishes, saly