Trashing Sublimity- The Heptonstall-Derham problem

[Panjandrum]

That comment is not so much "personal" as pathetic.

I don't see anything which tugs at the heart strings.

Whilst not providing an accurate assessment of Ms Derham it tells us everything we need to know about your judgement.

That he has good judgement on matters of the kind of presentational skills required?

[Panjandrum]

I agree that this kind of comment is very much "below the belt".

For the sake of balance I disagree with this comment. Presenters are very much there to be shot at, particularly when they impose their personalities and parade their lack of musical knowledge on national radio. Moreover, when they are well remunerated, there is no excuse for peddling inaccurate information. As anyone who knows me will testify, I am more than happy to say these things face to face, although other forms of correspondence are equally acceptable.

[mangerton]

Just out of interest, can you make ad hominem comments about a female presenter?

I would say so. Homo, hominis, means man in the sense of mankind or people in general. "Vir" means man, husband, and "mulier" means woman, wife.

[Word]

Panjandrum, I particularly liked the irony when you accused Cavatina of 'trolling' .

[mangerton]

As for Calum's street urchin feeling: I accepted a schoolfriend's invitation to have 'a spot of lunch at the golf club'. When I turned up in my as per usual, I wasn't allowed into the clubhouse because I was clad in blue denim jeans . My friend had been wearing khaki denim jeans for the round of golf which was apparently okay.

I gather I was the talk of the school reunion (to which I did not go) a few weeks later

Two lucky escapes there. I went to a school reunion thirty years ago, and vowed never again.

[Segilla]

There is no God-given right for the Proms to be broadcast on TV at all and I think we should be grateful to the BBC for continuing to do so.

But there is there not a justifiable right to have such broadcasts where we the public pay the BBC licence fee?

The same goes for the heavily subsidised Covent Garden, for example. I think that all performances should be televised so that those who cannot attend due to distance or cost etc are given an opportunity to see and hear what their money is being spent on.

[Petrushka]

But there is there not a justifiable right to have such broadcasts where we the public pay the BBC licence fee?

That's a fair point but it's worth bearing in mind that the number of televised Proms has sharply increased since the advent of BBC4 (let's hope it stays that way). We can criticise the BBC for a lot of things but should be grateful for what we have. As long as they do the Proms the licence fee is worth every penny.

[Panjandrum]

Panjandrum, I particularly liked the irony when you accused Cavatina of 'trolling' .

You either know nothing about classical music or enjoy listening to patronising drivel. Which is it?

[Word]

Sometimes Cavatina's posts are about music, sometimes they're not, but they are typically thoughtful and interesting.

Similarly many of your posts are on musical subjects and they too are typically interesting, but I would be surprised if you wished to maintain that you don't also make a significant number of posts with the intention of provoking a response.

[french frank]

BBC Two presentation isn't aimed at a knowledgeable Radio 3 audience. And the thing about television is that you can turn the sound down until the music is about to start. That's rather hit-and-miss with radio.

And talk about 'trashing sublimity': anyone noticed the iPlayer Proms panel by the picture of Martyn Brabbins?

"Proms 2011

Find out what's on at this years Prom's"

[Lateralthinking1]

I have been a little surprised at some of the phraseology on Radio 3 during the Proms. Some will know that I don't have any particular problem with a very wide range of styles but I do like things to look and sound appropriate to context.

I have already heard one piece of music described as "having a groove" and in the introduction to another one presenter said "time then to go over to the action". I felt in the latter case that he was gearing up for commentary on the Olympics.

I would also welcome clarification from the knowledgeable on whether it has always been commonplace to describe a group of classical musicians as "the band".

[rauschwerk]

I would also welcome clarification from the knowledgeable on whether it has always been commonplace to describe a group of classical musicians as "the band".

I don't know about always, but certainly at least as far back as the 19th century.

[rauschwerk]

Just as I posted my last message I remembered where to find this account of one of Haydn's London concerts:-

"The first Subscription Concert took place last Friday, at Hanover Square.

"The established musical judges present all agreed that it went off with surprising effect and rigid exactness. No Band in the world can go better."

(The Times, 20 February 1792)

[Mandryka]

I know a few classical musicians who have adopted 'rock/jazz' terminology. They play 'in a band' and 'do gigs'. Orchestral percussionists are 'trap-rattlers' and when the soloist in a concertos does his/her thing, they are said to 'go off on one'.

[french frank]

"The first Subscription Concert took place last Friday, at Hanover Square. The established musical judges present all agreed that it went off with surprising effect and rigid exactness. No Band in the world can go better."

Which reminds me that The Hanover Band was founded over 30 years ago.

Professionals have their own jargon/usage which gradually spreads. I think for the BBC/R3, it's a deliberate case of hauling classical music off its perceived pedestal.