Trashing Sublimity- The Heptonstall-Derham problem

[french frank]

which I don't think exists to the same degree (or maybe not in quite the same way, could be wrong) in jazz audiences.

Your feeling may be due to the fact that you are part of the 'jazz audience'.

Coincidentally, while I was having my lunch , I was imagining sitting in a caff alongside a couple of black rap/hiphop fans assuring them that there was no more reason why they shouldn't go to an opera (£7 seats in Bristol) than for white kids to go to a hiphop gig. It's only a matter of curiosity and what appeals to you. And it's wanting to find out what it's all about, not going in wanting to do things on your own terms.

As for foreign languages: they're taught in schools and spoken by a lot of foreigners. And they relate to classical music in various ways. I'm not likely to understand much German, but nor am I likely to understand if people here talk philosophy, econonomics, 'science' (like all sorts of 'science' ). Feeling 'excluded' doesn't bother me - I just move on ...

[Serial_Apologist]

Your feeling may be due to the fact that you are part of the 'jazz audience'.

Feeling 'excluded' doesn't bother me - I just move on ...

If true, you are... singularly blessed

[Satie]

Thank heaven for street urchins....and thank you for your support...something else to share and value.

[vinteuil]

da Gorroto dut noiz peole Horretarako ez duzu?

... far too few Euzkadi speakers on these here Boards....

[french frank]

If true, you are... singularly blessed

But absolutely true. There are so many things I don't know anything about (while knowing too much about tiny areas of knowledge which are no use to man nor beast), life would be intolerable if I cared about being ignorant

As for Calum's street urchin feeling: I accepted a schoolfriend's invitation to have 'a spot of lunch at the golf club'. When I turned up in my as per usual, I wasn't allowed into the clubhouse because I was clad in blue denim jeans . My friend had been wearing khaki denim jeans for the round of golf which was apparently okay.

I gather I was the talk of the school reunion (to which I did not go) a few weeks later

[vinteuil]

...t
my problem with ms Derham is nowt to do with her really, i just feel socially awkward at a very middle class dinner party and the street urchin in me recoils ...

... for me it's the ghastly lower-middle-classness of K Derham that grates...

Actually it's not that. It's that she's a Hyacinth Bucket who thinks she's grander than she is.
Yes, I recognise that this is making a "personal" comment. But she pushes me beyond my normal benevolent tolerance range....

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

in the eye of the beholder innit ....

it is a real problem on the telly where presumably they are wanting an audience in millions, the tastes round here number in the hundred thousands at best so what can they do to engage the casual viewer who has dropped in for a prom?

[vinteuil]

:
I gather I was the talk of the school reunion (to which I did not go) a few weeks later :

... "to which I did not go". Therein lies wisdom

[salymap]

I have to say, much the way I too feel when certain posters here quote in e.g. German, and then follow up with a big smiley. There's a big exclusivity thing about classical gatherings - those gathering being apparently unaware of it - which I don't think exists to the same degree (or maybe not in quite the same way, could be wrong) in jazz audiences.

I feel much the same way but it's French, [which most studied], that makes me feel very inferior. I took an Italian course at Morley College in later life and picked up a bit of Italian and German working in music,
but never seemed to get round to French. Sorry ff.
However when we should hav been doing languages at school the Blitz was on and we were sent home at lunchtime to avoid the worst of the raids.

[Word]

... for me it's the ghastly lower-middle-classness of K Derham that grates...

Actually it's not that. It's that she's a Hyacinth Bucket who thinks she's grander than she is.
Yes, I recognise that this is making a "personal" comment. But she pushes me beyond my normal benevolent tolerance range....

That comment is not so much "personal" as pathetic.

Whilst not providing an accurate assessment of Ms Derham it tells us everything we need to know about your judgement.

[Serial_Apologist]

That comment is not so much "personal" as pathetic.

Whilst not providing an accurate assessment of Ms Derham it tells us everything we need to know about your judgement.

You have read all of vinteuil's posts then, I take it?

[Word]

You have read all of vinteuil's posts then, I take it?

I certainly wouldn't presume to take issue with his musical judgement.

[Petrushka]

in the eye of the beholder innit ....

it is a real problem on the telly where presumably they are wanting an audience in millions, the tastes round here number in the hundred thousands at best so what can they do to engage the casual viewer who has dropped in for a prom?

Calum's comment here is one that has been on my mind for a while. The BBC, and television in particular have a bit of a problem in this age of so many competing attractions - far more diverse than even a few years ago. I can and do sympathise with the Beeb in facing up to the dilemma of how to pitch information in such a way as to attract and hold the casual viewer without alienating the already knowledgeable audience. In practise, I think it's well-nigh impossible to do both and I think that as we are all hopefully in the second category we should be more understanding of the efforts made to introduce people into our world. Whether the method is the right one is another question.

When I first began watching televised Proms in the early 1970's you would have Richard Baker (usually) giving an introduction to the piece complete with a picture of the composer and a few words about the performers. This is still all that is necessary in most cases and it makes no sense at all to shout the same information over the concluding applause. In my view all interviews with 'guests' should be jettisoned as it adds nothing and would be enough for me turn off. There is no point in trying to keep the audience for the next programme which will most likely be for a different audience entirely. Most of these comments apply to R3 as much as they do to TV. I have no problem with Katie Derham going off to Vienna, lucky girl, though in fairness she very likely recorded a few such introductions while there (possibly last season's Schoenberg/Berg/Webern piece dates from the same visit?).

There is no God-given right for the Proms to be broadcast on TV at all and I think we should be grateful to the BBC for continuing to do so.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That comment is not so much "personal" as pathetic.

Whilst not providing an accurate assessment of Ms Derham it tells us everything we need to know about your judgement.

I agree that this kind of comment is very much "below the belt". It's one thing to comment upon the BBC's increasing tendency to dumb down, but making personal comments about a presenter in this way isn't going to achieve anything. I suggest people who want to make personal comments request an interview with the person concerned and say it to her (or "his" when appropriate) face.

[Norfolk Born]

I found the interval feature mildly irritating, and that goes for KD's contributions generally, but it's the performances that I shall remember long after I've forgotten all the associated flummery. (Just out of interest, can you make ad hominem comments about a female presenter?)