Trashing Sublimity- The Heptonstall-Derham problem

[Guest]

I wonder how many contributors to this forum will agree that the two Haitink Brahms Proms with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe have displayed musicianship and musical taste at an inspirational level. It was hard also to remember anything more musically convivial than the Emmanuel Ax-orchestra-Haitinl relationship. We will be keeping our recordings of both concerts for a very long time.

Hence the extreme dismay at the Derham Brahms interlude, presumably inspired by the producer. Ms Derham took herself at BBC expense (our expense) to Vienna where she sat at the foot of the ghastly Brahms "monument" and muttered platitudes about him. Then a short scene followed with her in the usual cafe muttering some more. We were also treated to brief extracts from the Hollywood take on the Great Brahms-Clara Schumann Story of a Relationship. The extracts were an insult to the intelligence of every Promenader and to every musical BBC listener. Injected between sublime musical performance they seemed to destroy the very cultural basis of the BBC. Certainly they destroyed for us Ms Derham's credibility as someone maintaining the intellectual standards of Newnham and being pushed by inane influences to indulge in pure crap. I'm reminded of a story about someone in Cambridge when C P Snow made one of his public utterances: "doesn't he know he's selling the pass"? came the question. "He doesn't know there is a pass to be sold", came the reply.

[makropulos]

I agree entirely about both the concerts. The interval feature in the second concert was certainly odd: having gone to Vienna, the first four people to comment on the film (while Katie Derham stood by the Karlsplatz Brahms statue, which I rather like) were all French! First Milhaud, then Paul Tortelier and the Capuçon brothers. And they were swiftly followed by Serge Gainsbourg.

[Panjandrum]

I wonder how many contributors to this forum will agree that the two Haitink Brahms Proms with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe have displayed musicianship and musical taste at an inspirational level. It was hard also to remember anything more musically convivial than the Emmanuel Ax-orchestra-Haitinl relationship. We will be keeping our recordings of both concerts for a very long time.

Hence the extreme dismay at the Derham Brahms interlude, presumably inspired by the producer. Ms Derham took herself at BBC expense (our expense) to Vienna where she sat at the foot of the ghastly Brahms "monument" and muttered platitudes about him. Then a short scene followed with her in the usual cafe muttering some more. We were also treated to brief extracts from the Hollywood take on the Great Brahms-Clara Schumann Story of a Relationship. The extracts were an insult to the intelligence of every Promenader and to every musical BBC listener. Injected between sublime musical performance they seemed to destroy the very cultural basis of the BBC. Certainly they destroyed for us Ms Derham's credibility as someone maintaining the intellectual standards of Newnham and being pushed by inane influences to indulge in pure crap. I'm reminded of a story about someone in Cambridge when C P Snow made one of his public utterances: "doesn't he know he's selling the pass"? came the question. "He doesn't know there is a pass to be sold", came the reply.

In a pavlovian reflex I reach subliminally for the mute button whenever I hear this presenter's clipped vowels, as I know from past, painful experience that a stream of pseudo claptrap will torrent forth. There have been many threads on this, and other fora, devoted to the decline in standards of Radio 3 presenters. Sadly, it appears that these utterances of despair fall on deaf ears with the powers that be.

[David Underdown]

More annoying in the hall itself was the clattering from the BBC box while Brahms 3 was still underway as the chairs were rearranged so that Hazlewood could launch into his spiel as soon ad the applause started.

[DracoM]

Because presumably Hazlewood / Derham / TV crap et al are more important than the music?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

More annoying in the hall itself was the clattering from the BBC box while Brahms 3 was still underway as the chairs were rearranged so that Hazlewood could launch into his spiel as soon ad the applause started.

It's an acute case of Channel 5 Syndrome - any moment of repose, thoughtfulness, etc., has to be filled with mind-numbing jabber.

I blame Channel 5 because on the day of the funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales, the BBC and ITV included a little sensitive commentary from time to time, Channel 5 had relentless and continuous stating-of-the-obvious for several hours. (Channel 4 showed cartoons.)

I wonder how long it will be before we are subjected to the presenter's commentary being accompanied by a sickening drumbeat.

[french frank]

I blame Channel 5 because on the day of the funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales, the BBC and ITV included a little sensitive commentary from time to time, Channel 5 had relentless and continuous stating-of-the-obvious for several hours.

There is a point that when you've just heard any piece that you've enjoyed and you're in spirit joining in the applause with the people in the hall, it's very distracting to be given a stream of information about the performer, the composer, where the piece fits into the composer's oeuvre, where the performer was performinglast week. Why do you need the information, shouted over the applause, at that particular moment? It can be shared beforehand while the players are coming on to the platform before the conductor and/or soloist arrive(s). [Hope I have the brackets correctly placed ]


[Afterthought: there is an semantic connection between the phrase 'selling the pass' and 'making something accessible' ....]

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

...they are terrified of losing whatever audience has been captured by the first half ... so continuity, keep the eyes glued

my problem with ms Derham is nowt to do with her really, i just feel socially awkward at a very middle class dinner party and the street urchin in me recoils ...


alas what would not impair the sublimity of these performances ...?????????


there is a very real problem here, the presentation i watched was made for tv not R3... [a fifteen minute talk used to be it on the old third if i recollect] ... what to do in the interval?

[pilamenon]

There is a point that when you've just heard any piece that you've enjoyed and you're in spirit joining in the applause with the people in the hall, it's very distracting to be given a stream of information about the performer, the composer, where the piece fits into the composer's oeuvre, where the performer was performinglast week.

A minor irritant for me is Radio 3's habit of detailing the soloist/conductor/orchestra's forthcoming engagements around the world, and quipping about how busy they are. Same spiel every time. Yes, we know international artists are busy people.

[Serial_Apologist]

my problem with ms Derham is nowt to do with her really, i just feel socially awkward at a very middle class dinner party and the street urchin in me recoils ...

I have to say, much the way I too feel when certain posters here quote in e.g. German, and then follow up with a big smiley. There's a big exclusivity thing about classical gatherings - those gathering being apparently unaware of it - which I don't think exists to the same degree (or maybe not in quite the same way, could be wrong) in jazz audiences.

[eighthobstruction]

Missed this great interlude....is it on Utube....was there a helicopter involved....??

[Norfolk Born]

I have to say, much the way I too feel when certain posters here quote in e.g. German, and then follow up with a big smiley. There's a big exclusivity thing about classical gatherings - those gathering being apparently unaware of it - which I don't think exists to the same degree (or maybe not in quite the same way, could be wrong) in jazz audiences.

Je m'excuse d'avoir écrit, de temps en temps, en allemand.
(Moi, j'aime la musique classique et le jazz également).

[Serial_Apologist]

Je m'excuse d'avoir écrit, de temps en temps, en allemand.
(Moi, j'aime la musique classique et le jazz également).

Passe.....

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

da Gorroto dut noiz peole Horretarako ez duzu?

[Norfolk Born]

Only on the third Thursday after Mole-Wurdling Day, with the additional provisos that (a) my lallies are fully ripe and (b) my grummits haven't been nadgered, and (c) both are in the correct respective astrological house (as you may have guessed, 0800 on Monday is 'Round The Horne' time in our house).