20-minute cut-off before Proms

[Guest]

Is anyone else with a season ticket to the Proms finding it almost impossible to meet the new 20-minute deadline? Last year, the cut-off point for entry to the Proms was 10 minutes before concerts; difficult but not impossible. I keep missing concerts because even if I leave work bang on time, I can't guarantee I'll make it across to the RAH. It's challenging for 7.30 concerts, but nigh on impossible for the 7pm ones! On Monday, having struggled through riots in Hackney, it was especially galling to be turned away 18 minutes before the start, and tonight, having diced with death rushing across Kensington Gore to arrive at 6.41 only to be sent home, it was, shall we say "somewhat frustrating"
I was told that the decision was taken jointly by the RAH and R3, and that it's much easier for the staff, but in previous years they managed admirably!
Reverting to the 10-minute rule would make a massive, massive difference to me... Am I the only one?

[french frank]

Hello Brompt1 Looks like the crowd isn't back yet. I'm sure they'll have something to say.

[Bryn]

I have not been in a position to share your experience, but find it quite galling, though very much the sort of insulting stance to be expected of RW and the RAH. Sure I think anyone arriving at one of the doors leading directly to the stairs up to the Arena after the scheduled start time of the Prom should expect to have to wait there until the hiatus between the works programmed, (I am bearing in mind that it takes some time for the Radio 3 presenter to introduce the first work), but to have a 20 minute cut-off for entry to the RAH is plainly unnecessary and an abuse of their powers of admittance. Have you considered launching a petition (not by any means the first to be found necessary this season)?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I agree that 20 minutes is excessive.

And what lame excuses.

[amac4165]

Not only is it excessive - it is stupidly enforced even when there is no problem with capacity. Arrive at 17 minutes to go you are sent round to a queue at another door (presumably because they can't the tickets quick enough) and you stand there adding to the problem until you manage to get into a 2/3 full arena.

[PhilipT]

So far, I've not been caught out - coming from work is pretty much impossible for me now anyway. But I have to say that I'm with the RAH on this. If a Prom isn't well attended by Season Ticket holders then 10 minutes is very little time to get a lot of people into the Hall and settled down before kick-off. And there are Proms, especially what I might call special-interest Proms, where the day queue will be very long but many Season Ticket holders will choose to give it a miss. I can see that some people will find it a pain - and there have been Proms in previous years where I've been told by the steward on the door that I've just made it and I was the last one in - but I think the decision is the right one and we should live with it.

[cavatina]

Nice post, Mr. T.

I spoke with the RAH house manager this afternoon, who pointed out that if the concert isn't sold out, all you have to do is join the end of the day queue and walk in after everyone else. When you think of what an enormous value your season ticket represents, it's not an unreasonable policy at all, and serves to make things more fair for the day queue people in terms of quality of experience.

Another point nobody seems to be considering in all this is the fact that we sainted, holier-than-thou Elite Arena Season Prommers are only paying five-pounds-or-less per concert. Exactly how much privilege and special treatment do you feel entitled to, anyway? Reality check: our experience is subsidised by the license fee, and when you think of it, we're all on the equivalent of musical welfare. If we put ourselves in perspective in the overall scheme of things, it doesn't make sense to expect RAH to bend over backwards for us for any reason.

I have not been in a position to share your experience, but find it quite galling, though very much the sort of insulting stance to be expected of RW and the RAH.

Don't you think RW has more important things on his mind than figuring out fiendish new ways to disrespect season ticket holders? Good grief...another fine example of "James Bond Villain/Comic Book Baddie Syndrome".

[Chris Newman]

I moved from London in the 1973, but the policy then for late season ticket holders was as the house manager told Cavatina, join the tail of the day queue.

[Bryn]

cavatina, take the standing Promenader capacity of the Arena, divide it by the standard seating capacity of that same Arena and then tell me how heavily subsidised Promenading really is. It's a matter of simple arithmetic.

As for RW. The totally unnecessary season ticket holders priority arrangement for Prom 4 was something he appeared to be happy to proclaim some responsibility for in advance of the concert (objections were raised with him regarding this issue when he did one of his walk-abouts down the day queue, though not by me). Having decided to do away with the fountain for the season, it apparently failed to dawn on him that the area freed up would largely compensate for the area lost to the orchestras. So it's not just your grasp of simple arithmetic which seems to be lacking. When it came to it all who wanted to Prom in the Arena for The Gothic got in with some space to spare. It's just that the front rail ended up as exclusive season ticket territory, to the dismay of some of the early Day Ticket queuers, (I was happy standing on the bell of the clarinet).

PT, somehow, in previous years, it has been found possible to coordinate the entry of both Day Queue ticket purchasers and season ticket holders without the 20 minute cut-off. Communication between the staff on the respective doors should now be far simpler and immediate to achieve. I am not a season ticket holder but I have every sympathy with those who have paid up in advance and find the new restriction somewhat onerous. I wonder what it is that drives you to this role of apologist for the RAH and RW? As a service provider, the RAH management is failing in its customer care regarding season ticket holders, in my view.

[cavatina]

cavatina, take the standing Promenader capacity of the Arena, divide it by the standard seating capacity of that same Arena and then tell me how heavily subsidised Promenading really is. It's a matter of simple arithmetic.

By international standards, the whole festival is heavily subsidized; that level of government funding in the US would be unheard of. And "simple arithmetic" tells me that someone who's seen every last one of the Proms two years running (from the front row more often than not) is getting the steal of the century. Believe it or not, I felt so guilty about that I gave a thought to paying a license fee just on the principle of the thing.

As for RW. The totally unnecessary season ticket holders priority arrangement for Prom 4 was something he appeared to be happy to proclaim some responsibility for in advance of the concert).

If that's something he said to Arena Prommers out on the steps, big woop. I'm sure that could easily be explained by operating on the idea that when you're surrounded by baboons, you have to throw them a banana every once in awhile to keep them from eating you. Words to live by, really.

Having decided to do away with the fountain for the season, it apparently failed to dawn on him that the area freed up would largely compensate for the area lost to the orchestras. So it's not just your grasp of simple arithmetic which seems to be lacking.

Speaking of the fountain, I asked the house manager if removing it left enough seats for the disabled. She assured me that there were more than enough seats for people who need them, and said the fountain was environmentally unfriendly and not cost-effective. On nights they're doing a televised broadcast, they often have a camera stationed where the fountain used to be, so I'm sure that might be a part of it as well.

PT [...]I wonder what it is that drives you to this role of apologist for the RAH and RW?

Because he's being reasonable and his position makes sense?

[BudgieJane]

As for RW. The totally unnecessary season ticket holders priority arrangement for Prom 4 was something he appeared to be happy to proclaim some responsibility for in advance of the concert (objections were raised with him regarding this issue when he did one of his walk-abouts down the day queue, though not by me). Having decided to do away with the fountain for the season, it apparently failed to dawn on him that the area freed up would largely compensate for the area lost to the orchestras. So it's not just your grasp of simple arithmetic which seems to be lacking. When it came to it all who wanted to Prom in the Arena for The Gothic got in with some space to spare. It's just that the front rail ended up as exclusive season ticket territory, to the dismay of some of the early Day Ticket queuers, (I was happy standing on the bell of the clarinet).

That was easy to remedy, if only someone had the guts to do it. Lay some white tape to delineate some area for day-queue ticket holders only on the right of the Arena FOR THAT DAY ONLY, say two or three rows deep; allow season-ticket holders to the left and anywhere outside that box. A ten-minutes-at-most job, and people are kept happy.

PT, somehow, in previous years, it has been found possible to coordinate the entry of both Day Queue ticket purchasers and season ticket holders without the 20 minute cut-off. Communication between the staff on the respective doors should now be far simpler and immediate to achieve. I am not a season ticket holder but I have every sympathy with those who have paid up in advance and find the new restriction somewhat onerous. I wonder what it is that drives you to this role of apologist for the RAH and RW? As a service provider, the RAH management is failing in its customer care regarding season ticket holders, in my view.

I have a feeling this is to do with the fire regulations: the Arena has a maximum capacity, and if it is not filled by (in this year's case) 20 minutes before start-time then the Hall will try to fill it with day-queue people. Season-ticket holders arriving "late" screw up their calculations.

[BudgieJane]

By international standards, the whole festival is heavily subsidized; that level of government funding in the US would be unheard of. And "simple arithmetic" tells me that someone who's seen every last one of the Proms two years running (from the front row more often than not) is getting the steal of the century. Believe it or not, I felt so guilty about that I gave a thought to paying a license fee just on the principle of the thing.

I like that idea. I can just imagine the TV licensing people wondering why their computer system has crashed, because a non-resident has voluntarily paid a TV licence fee on a property where one is already in force!

I'm sure you remember my saying at the start of the season that I've been to a lot of concerts over the past year, and my total expenditure on tickets has been £210. That was for 1 season ticket, and 1 seat at "the Bartered Bride". Every other concert I went to was free, because it was a BBC concert (at Maida Vale, or the BBC singers near Hyde Park Corner, etc.). I then stated that, in my not-so-humble opinion, the licence fee is the best value in the world, considering what you get for the money.

Don't forget all those German and Swedish non-UK-resident people with season tickets for the Proms, who are getting the same good deal as you are. The best thing to do is enjoy it, and tell all the folks back home what a wonderfully welcoming bunch of people we Promenaders are.:cool2:

If I were you, I'd spend the money on more of that expensive wine you've been buying, and let me help you drink it.

[PhilipT]

PT, somehow, in previous years, it has been found possible to coordinate the entry of both Day Queue ticket purchasers and season ticket holders without the 20 minute cut-off.

Bryn, I am afraid that your comment betrays ignorance of what is going on.

The Day and Season Ticket queues have always been admitted to the Hall simultaneously (except on the rarest of occasions such as the Gothic this year, and one notorious NYO concert when the Stewards .. umm .. got it wrong). In recent years the system has been improved by (a) pre-selling tickets to the first 150 or so of the Day queue so they're not held up on entry; and (b) holding the queues in the corridor and then releasing them into the Arena simultaneously. What has not changed is the system for holding up the Day queue at some point to leave room for Season Ticket holders who have not yet arrived. If, say, the capacity of the Arena is 900 and 550 Season Tickets have been sold, then only 350 Arena Day people can be admitted initially, and at that point the Day queue will be held up. The Season Ticket holders are counted on entry, and at the cut-off time as many more people can be admitted via the Day queue as there are Season Ticket holders who have not yet entered.

The system has not changed this year, not in any way. All that has changed is that the cut-off time has been moved from 10 minutes before the scheduled start of the concert to 20 minutes before.

[Bryn]

The system has not changed this year, not in any way [except the very way with which this thread treats ]. All that has changed is that the cut-off time has been moved from 10 minutes before the scheduled start of the concert to 20 minutes before.

It's that crucial 10 minutes which was the bone of contention giving rise to this thread.

[cavatina]

It's that crucial 10 minutes which was the bone of contention giving rise to this thread.

Realistically speaking, how many people are going to find ten minutes to be a dealbreaker? On the few nights the concerts are sold out? If ten minutes make the difference, make arrangements to get off work ten minutes early.