When should the leader come onto the stage?

[Guest]

I was at the BBC NOW prom last night (No. 18 with the two flute concertos). In both halves, the orchestra was led out onto the stage by Lesley Hatfield, their leader, who then supervised the orchestra's tuning. This is exactly the opposite of what happens with the BBC SO, where their leader comes on stage last, and misses the tuning which he leaves to the other player on the first desk of the first violins.

Last year I remember there was a European orchestra whose leader led the players out. In my opinion this looks much more professional than those orchestras whose members appear randomly with the leader appearing last, or where the leader comes on in the middle of the general entrance.

Jane

[Petrushka]

As with other things we have been out of step with our US and European friends on this issue though it does seem to be changing. General practise here was that the leader came on stage last and had, moreover, his/her own applause in doing so. The orchestra had already been tuned by the sub-leader. Sometimes, as a courtesy to being in this country, US and European concert-masters assume this same practise but generally speaking they come on stage with their colleagues. I also like to see the leader head the orchestras procession on and off the stage and I think I've seen the NYO or Gustav Mahler YO do this.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes. This would make more sense. At present, the leader is more of a "follower" who gets paid more than the others.

[Ariosto]

I was at the BBC NOW prom last night (No. 18 with the two flute concertos). In both halves, the orchestra was led out onto the stage by Lesley Hatfield, their leader, who then supervised the orchestra's tuning. This is exactly the opposite of what happens with the BBC SO, where their leader comes on stage last, and misses the tuning which he leaves to the other player on the first desk of the first violins.

Last year I remember there was a European orchestra whose leader led the players out. In my opinion this looks much more professional than those orchestras whose members appear randomly with the leader appearing last, or where the leader comes on in the middle of the general entrance.

Jane

The BBC NOW or NEVER orchestra probably needs supervision with its tuning, whereas other orchestras can do it on their own.

The leader has often (nearly always) to do the job of the conductor, but gets much less money, so he/she should at least have the chance for a bit of applause. Why should we follow the European/American model? We can be independent and do it our way. Either that, or pay the conductor a fee that mostly represents what they are worth ... (£12 a concert?)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The leader has often (nearly always) to do the job of the conductor, but gets much less money

Come off it. Does the rest of the orchestra take any notice of the leader? Perhaps the other 1st violins do, but the rest of them follow the percussion, or whoever is most dominant at the time. (A few may even count.)

[Ariosto]

Come off it. Does the rest of the orchestra take any notice of the leader? Perhaps the other 1st violins do, but the rest of them follow the percussion, or whoever is most dominant at the time. (A few may even count.)

I can assure you that leaders have been known to bring the whole band in after (for example) a pause where the conductor has been totally lost. Percussionists often follow a first violin part and don't necessarily rely on a conductor or on their own counting. In the Jurowski Prom I noticed on TV that most of the band were giving him little attention, and the leader was in fact leading the whole band a lot of the time.

So why does a conductor get £10,000 for a concert and the leader £300???????? (For example).

[Ferretfancy]

Ariosto,

Shame! I would have liked you to be called Orlando Furioso!

[Ariosto]

Ariosto,

Shame! I would have liked you to be called Orlando Furioso!

Well, I'm just a humble 16th C Italian poet in no hurry and plenty of time on my hands, born in a time when there was no such thing as a conductor ... (My poems use lots of vibrato though ...)

[BBMmk2]

Well, I am surprised that the orchestra doesnt come on stage like bands do you know. Looks far more professional, imo.

[Ariosto]

Well, I am surprised that the orchestra doesnt come on stage like bands do you know. Looks far more professional, imo.

How do they come on BBM? Drunk?

[johnb]

How do they come on BBM? Drunk?

[johnb]

I don't really like the regimented approach of, say, the VPO on the only time I saw them live.

Some years ago I used to regularly visit the Barbican for the LSO concerts and I much preferred their relative informality. The players would drift onto the platform, together but in a relaxed manner and Gordan Nikolitch (the leader for most of the concerts I saw) would eventually hurry on, looking as though he had only just remembered he should be there.

Much better than the slightly pompous formality I sometimes saw with other orchestras.

[Ariosto]

I don't really like the regimented approach of, say, the VPO on the only time I say them live.

Some years ago I used to regularly visit the Barbican for the LSO concerts and I much preferred their relative informality. The players would drift onto the platform, together but in a relaxed manner and Gordan Nikolitch (the leader for most of the concerts I saw) would eventually hurry on, looking as though he had only just remembered he should be there.

Must better than the slightly pompous formality I sometimes saw with other orchestras.

Hi johnb

I do agree. I used to dep with the LSO and they were the latest on the platform of any band I knew!! I was used to going on 5 minutes before the start, but found myself almost the only person there! Then they would all come on, 10 seconds before the start time. Yes, they were certainly casual. Good orchestra though!

[nersner]

I like the way they operate at Opera North (and probably other opera companies) when I wander in (usually ten minutes before curtain up) some are already there warming up or trying out certain phrases, gradually the pit fills up and the excitement builds.

[bluestateprommer]

I like the way they operate at Opera North (and probably other opera companies) when I wander in (usually ten minutes before curtain up) some are already there warming up or trying out certain phrases, gradually the pit fills up and the excitement builds.

Speaking as one of the token Americans here, this is pretty much how it works with orchestras in concert halls here, where starting about half an hour or so before the concert begins, players start arriving on stage and take their places to warm up. You can see audience members chatting with friends in the orchestra during that time as well, at the front of the stage. I'll admit that I've never actually sat in the hall for that whole time before the concert starts to watch the 'procession'. I was surprised the first time I'd seen a concert in Europe (at the Concertgebouw, FWIW) to see an empty stage, and then the whole orchestra comes in at once just before the concert begins. Obviously that's the European tradition, and wherever one is, to me, whatever works is right. Of course, we have the tradition here that the concertmaster is the last member of the orchestra to take the stage to lead the ritual tuning.