Windows 7 or chance Windows 8.1?

[johnb]

To find a laptop that you can run Windows 7 pro on it needs to have been offered with Windows 8 pro, and you've either got to do the downgrade yourself or find a maker/seller that will do this at the time of purchase. Don't be surprised if this is only offered on business class laptops, for example some of the Lenovo Thinkpads. Whether such a laptop is affordable, or has the specs you want is another question.

How easy is it to downgrade from Windows 8/8.1 pro to Windows 7 pro yourself? First you've got to get the Windows 7 pro media. Legit downloads are still available from “digital river” :

Sorry but this is rather misleading!

Most large PC manufacturers who cater for the business market produce PCs and laptops with Windows 7 already installed on them (through the Windows 8 downgrade rights). These are readily available through online suppliers such as Misco or through the manufacturer's own websites e.g. HP or Lenovo (to mention just two). Indeed most of the desktop PCs on the HP Business website have Windows 7 Pro pre-installed on them!

There are 108 Desktop PCs on the Misco website with Windows 7 Pro installed (through Windows 8 downgrade rights): http://www.misco.co.uk/Cat/Computers...ameAsc#Sorting

I would never suggest that someone tries to downgrade Windows 8 Pro to Windows 7 themselves - that seems to be a total nightmare and seemingly needs a Windows 7 key.

As far as business grade PCs and laptops are concerned I have been using them for many years - they are usually more robustly made though they usually have fewer of the consumer bells and whistles.

[Pegleg]

Sorry but this is rather misleading!

Most large PC manufacturers who cater for the business market produce PCs and laptops with Windows 7 already installed on them (through the Windows 8 downgrade rights). These are readily available through online suppliers such as Misco or through the manufacturer's own websites e.g. HP or Lenovo (to mention just two). Indeed most of the desktop PCs on the HP Business website have Windows 7 Pro pre-installed on them!

There are 108 Desktop PCs on the Misco website with Windows 7 Pro installed (through Windows 8 downgrade rights): http://www.misco.co.uk/Cat/Computers...ameAsc#Sorting

I would never suggest that someone tries to downgrade Windows 8 Pro to Windows 7 themselves - that seems to be a total nightmare and seemingly needs a Windows 7 key.

As far as business grade PCs and laptops are concerned I have been using them for many years - they are usually more robustly made though they usually have fewer of the consumer bells and whistles.

I'm not sure how I was misleading. Did I not talk about business class laptops? Did I not mention Lenovo, more than once. Did I not point out downgrade rights only exist for Windows 8/8.1 pro which is intended for the business market? Neither did I suggest trying the downgrade yourself as a first option, nor did I imply it was straightfowrad. I simply pointed out what the route might be, including the need for activation.

I would certainly hope business class laptops are more robust than their consumer counterparts considering the typical price. Fine, if you haven't got to pay for them yourself, otherwse they may not be affordable.

[Dave2002]

Johnb

Re msg 31

Do you think the situation re Windows 7/8 is the same around the world? Some who come here are from elsewhere i.e. outside the UK, such as in the USA. Rfg (msg 28) is one such, so would your comments also apply to US readers?

[johnb]

Well, looking at the HP Business website for the USA, the number of laptops/tablets listed by operating system is:

Windows 7 Professional 64 (85) [these will be using W8 downgrade rights]
Windows 8 Pro 32 (11)
Windows 7 Home Premium 64 (5)
Chrome OS (4)
Windows 8 Pro 64 (4)
Windows 8.1 64 (4)
Windows 8 64 (3)

(The number of devices is shown in brackets.)

It might be misleading as some machines will probably have much greater sales than others, but it is still interesting.

[Pegleg]

You can use this page to check your rights in the USA, UK or anywhere else:

http://www.microsoft.com/oem/pages/preferences.aspx?ReturnUrl=/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/pages/downgrade_rights.aspx#fbid=iVnwv1tZ3OF

The situation re Windows 7/8 appears to be the same in the UK and USA. I looked on Lenovo's USA website before my earlier post just to confirm Lenovo is selling business class laptops with the option of a Windows 7 pro install, and they are. Of course, there's HP and others to look for.

The suggestion of using a Windows 7 Virtual Machine on one of your MAC laptops is worth pursuing to see of this is a viable alternative.

[John Wright]

I'm not sure how I was misleading. Did I not talk about business class laptops?

Pegleg, you were misleading.

The Win7 Pro laptop I referred to in my earlier posts was bought on-line from Dell UK in October 2013, a Vostro model that has just been replaced by the Latitude 3330 which still has Win7 Pro in the 500Gb version.

http://www.dell.com/uk/business/p/latitude-3330-laptop/pd.aspx?c=uk&cs=ukbsdt1&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=mn

[Pegleg]

I'm sorry JW, but you've lost me now. Aren't we just going round in circles?

[John Wright]

There's no circles Pegleg. Just correcting what you implied about there being no laptops now with Win7 Pro.

I'm just confirming that Win7 Pro is still available on business laptops from Dell (UK).

[Pegleg]

Well, I re-read my post #29. At no time did I say, or imply, there are no laptops with Win7 pro. Amongst other things, I said this:

To find a laptop that you can run Windows 7 pro on it needs to have been offered with Windows 8 pro, and you've either got to do the downgrade yourself or find a maker/seller that will do this at the time of purchase. Don't be surprised if this is only offered on business class laptops, for example some of the Lenovo Thinkpads. Whether such a laptop is affordable, or has the specs you want is another question.

I believe this to be factually correct. Of course, DELL, HP etc are stilling putting Win7 pro their business laptops, just as Lenovo are. Nor did I, just in case you thought otherwise, recommend doing the downgrade yourself. It's doable, but perhaps not something the average non-technical user would find easy.

I seems to me you've simply confirmed what I said. I've nothing more to add.

[johnb]

I think you gave the impression, perhaps inadvertently, that getting a PC or laptop with W7 preinstalled is somewhat problematic, whereas nothing could be easier.

[Quarky]

Re: Linux.

Successive versions of Ubuntu Linux - we are now in 13.10 - Kubuntu - seem designed more and more for raw beginners to computing, and in comparison to Windows appear childs play!

I want an operating system which is transparent to the user, so that I can see what is going on, and mess around as desired. I am now reinstalling an earlier version of Ubuntu.

But are there recommendations for another version of Linux, which might be more suitable for a more knowledgeable user, but a little more user friendly than a blank screen and blinking cursor? Arch Linux for example?

[Frances_iom]

personally I prefer MINT which originally built on the Ubuntu framework but not the default Unity GUI which has been panned by many - since then Mint has meved away and looks likely to follow Debian but with its own newly developed GUI which followed the classic model introduced by Gnome2 - if you want a stable distribution but away from cutting edge seems the most popular is prob Debian.
There are many Linux mags these days which offer versions runnable from a CD so you can try before installing but bunfights between users of different GUIs are part of the Linux scene.

[Quarky]

personally I prefer MINT which originally built on the Ubuntu framework but not the default Unity GUI which has been panned by many - since then Mint has meved away and looks likely to follow Debian but with its own newly developed GUI which followed the classic model introduced by Gnome2 - if you want a stable distribution but away from cutting edge seems the most popular is prob Debian.
There are many Linux mags these days which offer versions runnable from a CD so you can try before installing but bunfights between users of different GUIs are part of the Linux scene.

Thanks for advice, Frances. I have now installed Mint on a laptop. It has a very smart desk top, but will permit me to bungee jump into the depths of the system very easily, hopefully without hitting my head! Preferable to latest version of Ubuntu, imv.

First job to find out what happened to the wifi driver!

[Dave2002]

personally I prefer MINT which originally built on the Ubuntu framework but not the default Unity GUI which has been panned by many - since then Mint has meved away and looks likely to follow Debian but with its own newly developed GUI which followed the classic model introduced by Gnome2 - if you want a stable distribution but away from cutting edge seems the most popular is prob Debian.
There are many Linux mags these days which offer versions runnable from a CD so you can try before installing but bunfights between users of different GUIs are part of the Linux scene.

I've not tried Mint for quite a long while.

Are there any versions of Mint which will boot up on a Mac? Similarly for Ubuntu. I'm sure it must be possible.
I have previously created bootable images of Ubuntu and run them virtually using VirtualBox and VMWare.

Do any of the LiveCD or LiveDVD Linux versions work on Macs?

[DracoM]

Just dropping in to say how overwhelmed and grateful I am for the info on this thread.