Wi-fi broadband signal for Blu-ray player

[Dave2002]

I have often found online stores for cheap ethernet cables to provide very rapid service, and the cables I have had have worked OK. Why pay tens of pounds (high street stores) for plastic bubble packed wire when you can get something OK for a fraction of the price online?

[Dave2002]

Plenty of evidence to suggest that they do. In the link I posted and also here....http://www.theguardian.com/technolog.../2008/oct/20/1

Google Home Plug adapter Radio Interference and you'll come up with some demonstrations on Youtube.

OK, though I don't believe everything I read the papers. Before I tried it I predicted a lot of interference problems with ADSL, but largely I'd say my predictions were wrong - though theoretically possible.

[Dave2002]

I have now watched the videos, though I've not done my own tests - yet! If appears to me from the videos that different adapters have different characteristics. The BT one seemed to have a very identifiable periodic pattern. Possibly encrypting the data before sending it across the mains and then decrypting at the receiver would spread the noise over a wider frequency range, and it might then become much less obvious and less problematic. Has any analysis of the spectral properties of these devices when connected to the mains been done? The fact that there seem to be differences between different models is interesting.

Just a thought. Curiosity will drive me to try the short wave tests in the not too distant future.

[Resurrection Man]

I think it worth clarifying the difference between a switch and a router and when you might want to consider buying a switch (in addition to your router).

Generally speaking you will have a box in your house that acts as an interface between your telephone line, cable or satellite dish (for those who use such a beast for their internet connection). You might also be flush with money and use your mobile 3G service as the internet connection.

Whichever...said box (for simplicity call it a router) will have one or more Ethernet sockets to supply data to your computer set-up/internet enabled-TV/whatever. It may also have a built-in wifi connection but we're not talking about wifi here.

OK..those Ethernet sockets can be used to feed, say, a couple of PCs (his'n'hers) and that's probably about it for most folk. All your data movement between your PC or your internet-enabled TV (or other internet-enabled device) and the internet is done via the router. Even moving data between your two computers is done via this router and it is at this point that the possible benefits of a switch come into play.

If you have a much more complex inhouse IT set-up...for example, you might have a file-server or NAS (fancy name for a file-server) on which, say, all your music is stored. If you want to listen to a piece of music on your PC and that music is stored on your file server then there is little point in clogging up the router with the data. Far better to have a switch (which is a glorified digital distribution amplifier) installed after your router. Every inhouse piece of IT kit (including TVs etc) then gets plugged into this switch. There is only one connection to your router and that is also from your switch and is exclusively used for any data to/from the internet.

So to give an example. I have PC 1 and I want to browse this forum. My data connection goes PC1 > switch > router > broadband connection. If I have a music track on my file-server and want to listen to it on PC1 then the data connection goes file-server > switch > PC1. IE nothing goes through the router and it doesn't get clogged up.

Hope this might help anyone thinking whether they should get a switch or not as it isn't for everyone.

Where you might want to consider

[Dave2002]

RM: I agree it's worth trying to clarify the router/switch business, but it may simply add to the confusion for many people. For most people routers are boxes which may also include a cable modem or ADSL modem, though some think they are only the router part (correct - but common parlance now is to refer to the gizmo which sits between the internet and domestic devices as a router), while switches are cheaper (typically £5-£15) gadgets which don't (generally) need setting up or control. It is often much simpler, and also cheaper, to use switches rather than routers if all one wants to do is effctively multiplex/demultiplex multiple devices on/off an ethernet network or link or bridge. That's why I suggested switches for placing at the ends of a powerline link. Routers are more complex and expensive (even without a modem), and the faffing about with IP addresses etc. can make things unreliable. I'd suggest that switches are more robust, because of the in-built protocols which they use, which should reconfigure automatically. They can just be plugged into the circuits and should work, so they are easier to configure initially. Modern ones also operate with low energy requirements (under 2 watts) and can switch to very low power (<0.1 watt approx) when idle.

[Resurrection Man]

I agree but the way that I read the original suggestion was that a switch was almost essential. My read is that if you only have one item that you are plugging into your Home Plug then a switch is overkill.

[johnb]

Agreed.

A switch in those circumstances is totally superfluous.

Where a switch might be useful is if someone has more than one box to connect (say Networkable TV, Blu-Ray player, Streaming device) and doesn't want to be continually swapping the ethernet cable from one device to another.

[Dave2002]

I agree but the way that I read the original suggestion was that a switch was almost essential. My read is that if you only have one item that you are plugging into your Home Plug then a switch is overkill.

Absolutely, though just wait for the day when you want to add another device!

[Stanfordian]

Absolutely, though just wait for the day when you want to add another device!

Hello Dave2002,
Where exactly does this switch fit into my system? Is on the router or the Blu-ray player?

[Resurrection Man]

Hello Dave2002,
Where exactly does this switch fit into my system? Is on the router or the Blu-ray player?

1) If your router has only one Ethernet socket then the switch goes after the router. Everything else is then plugged into the switch.

2) If your router has more than one..usually four sockets.. then your computer goes into one socket. Your test ethernet cable goes from another socket on the router directly to your blu-ray player. But if you have more devices that need to be connected to the router than it has sockets, then it is option 1 above.

A picture is worth a thousand words

[johnb]

Hello Dave2002,
Where exactly does this switch fit into my system? Is on the router or the Blu-ray player?

Stanfordian,

All this talk of network switches might just be needless complicating a simple matter.

At the router end HomePlug you only need a switch if you haven't any available ports on your router.

At the Blu-Ray end HomePlug a switch is only of any benefit if you have more than one device you want to connect up (e.g. TV + Blu-Ray + streamer, etc), it would avoid having to swap the ethernet cable around.

Otherwise don't bother with a switch.

[Dave2002]

Hello Dave2002,
Where exactly does this switch fit into my system? Is on the router or the Blu-ray player?

Hi Stanfordian,

It really depends what you want to do, and what equipment you have. RM's diagram 3 might suit you if you accept wireless links to your computers. This would be appropriate for laptops, and aren't worried about the highest data rates or wireless privacy/interference/security issues. Let's first check how many ethernet outs you have on your router? If it's 3 or 4 - quite likely, then you probably won't need a switch at all, providing you only want to link to your Blu-Ray. If you also wanted to connect a smart TV, or a Sky box or a Freesat box (for example), then you'd need a switch at the remote end (Blu-Ray) of the link to allow for the multiple devices. I use one in this way to connect to (remote) computers, a Freesat box and a Squeezebox unit.

If you've only 1 ethernet out on your router (unlikely, but some older/cheaper ones are like that) then if you want to use wired connections rather than wireless you need a switch to get you (typically) 4,5 or 8 additional outputs on the ADSL/cable modem side of the homeplug lnk. You then feed one of these to the link, and as many as you need to the nearside computers. if you don't mind running your computer wirelessly then you might not need the switch, though performance might suffer.

If you do need switches, there are a few different types. You'd probably get away with using 100Mbps units, as most probably the homeplug link will run at around that rate or lower (even the AV ones ...), but Gigabit switches offer higher performance, and if you get the TP Link ones, they are not too much more expensive. If you are streaming from iPlayer from the Internet then the 100Mbps switches should be good enough, and even if you stream from your Blu-Ray using a Blu-Ray disc, 100 MBps switches should be good enough providing you don't want to do a lot of other high volume/high rate transfers at the same time (e.g you have kids in another room using Playstations etc. ....).

I can draw diagrams later, but I think RM's may be good enough for you to work this out.

I'd recommend

1. See if you can make do with a long and cheap ethernet cable - as mentioned earlier - from online suppliers.
2. If that works, and does what you want, can it be made permanent? if so, you're done. if not ....
3. Buy a pair (maybe more if you have more computers to connect, but 2 should suffice for the Blu-Ray) of homeplug units - they often come in pairs anyway. Don't get the low rate ones, from what you wrote you'll need AV200 or even AV500 units.
4. Try to connect your Blu-Ray using the homeplug link. Some are very easy - just plug and play, while others may need tweaking. If that's all you need, then you're done.
5. If you've run out of wired connections on your router and you want to run extra devices using wired connections, then you need to buy one or more switches, depending on where the devices are to be located. This is unlikely if you have a new router with 4 outputs as the Internet side of the link should have sufficient spare sockets.
6. If you need more connectivity at the remote (TV) end (possibly due to later additions), then buy a switch and connect it to the homeplug, then feed all the remote units from that.

I think RM's diagrams should be good enough, but if you need more I'll do diagrams later. It'd help to know if you are using ADSL and if your router device has 4 outputs, as I suspect.

Good luck with this, and don't spend too much if you can avoid it. Wire is cheapest if you can get it to work without too much disruption, or have impossibly long cable requirements.

[Dave2002]

Simplicity ...

PS: Re my previous message, follow johnb's (msg 26) advice if your requirements are simple and straightforward.

I think RM and I have been trying to show you more configurations, which possibly you won't need. It does depend on what you have, and what your requirements are.

One caveat though, thinking about my own configuration. My switch at the TV end is easily accessible - I just pull it out from under the TV bench. The homeplug is harder to reach. If I want to plug in any new devices it's easy to connect them to the switch - cable swapping on the homeplug would be a real pain.

[Stanfordian]

Hi Stanfordian,

It really depends what you want to do, and what equipment you have. RM's diagram 3 might suit you if you accept wireless links to your computers. This would be appropriate for laptops, and aren't worried about the highest data rates or wireless privacy/interference/security issues. Let's first check how many ethernet outs you have on your router? If it's 3 or 4 - quite likely, then you probably won't need a switch at all, providing you only want to link to your Blu-Ray. If you also wanted to connect a smart TV, or a Sky box or a Freesat box (for example), then you'd need a switch at the remote end (Blu-Ray) of the link to allow for the multiple devices. I use one in this way to connect to (remote) computers, a Freesat box and a Squeezebox unit.

If you've only 1 ethernet out on your router (unlikely, but some older/cheaper ones are like that) then if you want to use wired connections rather than wireless you need a switch to get you (typically) 4,5 or 8 additional outputs on the ADSL/cable modem side of the homeplug lnk. You then feed one of these to the link, and as many as you need to the nearside computers. if you don't mind running your computer wirelessly then you might not need the switch, though performance might suffer.

If you do need switches, there are a few different types. You'd probably get away with using 100Mbps units, as most probably the homeplug link will run at around that rate or lower (even the AV ones ...), but Gigabit switches offer higher performance, and if you get the TP Link ones, they are not too much more expensive. If you are streaming from iPlayer from the Internet then the 100Mbps switches should be good enough, and even if you stream from your Blu-Ray using a Blu-Ray disc, 100 MBps switches should be good enough providing you don't want to do a lot of other high volume/high rate transfers at the same time (e.g you have kids in another room using Playstations etc. ....).

I can draw diagrams later, but I think RM's may be good enough for you to work this out.

I'd recommend

1. See if you can make do with a long and cheap ethernet cable - as mentioned earlier - from online suppliers.
2. If that works, and does what you want, can it be made permanent? if so, you're done. if not ....
3. Buy a pair (maybe more if you have more computers to connect, but 2 should suffice for the Blu-Ray) of homeplug units - they often come in pairs anyway. Don't get the low rate ones, from what you wrote you'll need AV200 or even AV500 units.
4. Try to connect your Blu-Ray using the homeplug link. Some are very easy - just plug and play, while others may need tweaking. If that's all you need, then you're done.
5. If you've run out of wired connections on your router and you want to run extra devices using wired connections, then you need to buy one or more switches, depending on where the devices are to be located. This is unlikely if you have a new router with 4 outputs as the Internet side of the link should have sufficient spare sockets.
6. If you need more connectivity at the remote (TV) end (possibly due to later additions), then buy a switch and connect it to the homeplug, then feed all the remote units from that.

I think RM's diagrams should be good enough, but if you need more I'll do diagrams later. It'd help to know if you are using ADSL and if your router device has 4 outputs, as I suspect.

Good luck with this, and don't spend too much if you can avoid it. Wire is cheapest if you can get it to work without too much disruption, or have impossibly long cable requirements.

Hello Dave2000, Thank you for your amazingly helpful reply. It is much appeciated by a near-technophobic like me.

[Stanfordian]

[QUOTE=Resurrection Man;334255]1) If your router has only one Ethernet socket then the switch goes after the router. Everything else is then plugged into the switch.

2) If your router has more than one..usually four sockets.. then your computer goes into one socket. Your test ethernet cable goes from another socket on the router directly to your blu-ray player. But if you have more devices that need to be connected to the router than it has sockets, then it is option 1 above.

A picture is worth a thousand words



Thank you so much for your help Resurrection Man.



[URL="http://www.flickr.com/photos/countryman69/9815808673/"][IMG]http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3772/9815808673_8205914949.jpg[esurrection Man