I'm Looking to Upgrade My Current Sound System

[Dave2002]

I'm repeating what I've said elsewhere, but I think modern digital sources "sound" essentially the same so spending a lot at that end of the chain is not worthwhile. Even an iPhone5 measures better than many so-called high-end DACs.

I'm back to an "up to a point Lord Copper" moment. I have had CD players which sounded different on different CDs, and also some CDs which don't "work" with some equipment.

Ashkenazy's Rachmaninov Symphony 2 sounds really good on some equipment, merely ordinary on other kit.

Years ago I bought my father a Sherwood CD player. Initially it didn't work, so I was in a state trying to figure out whether to give it him for his birthday or send it back. Eventually I tipped it up and bashed it a bit, and a very small piece of packaging fell out - probably had been blocking the laser lens.
After that I got it working easily, and compared it with my own CD player. On some CDs of Bruckner symphonies that Sherwood player gave a solidity of sound which I haven't heard very often.

Lastly, although I'm broadly in agreement with you, why bother to buy different CDs of music you like? Once my wife went to buy me a Sibelius CD for a present, and I had requested a specific version. She went to Smiths, and couldn't find it, so asked the young assistant, who very helpfully went and found a CD. "It's not the right version" was my wife's comment, with the reply "But it's the same piece, the same music". Wrong answer!

[jayne lee wilson]

I'm repeating what I've said elsewhere, but I think modern digital sources "sound" essentially the same so spending a lot at that end of the chain is not worthwhile. Even an iPhone5 measures better than many so-called high-end DACs.

There's far more evidence against this than for it - what are your actual, factual observations? (You always seem to ignore the sonic effects of DAC filters, power supplies etc.)

As the amazed owner of a high-end DAC (the T&A DAC 8, offered to me outoftheblue, a brilliant 2ndhand deal!) I can report that it's a CONSIDERABLE sonic and musical advance on the already-highly-achieved Cambridge DacMagic, never mind the MF, Arcam, Perpetual Techs and others I've heard over the last 10 years. It's fed from high-quality earlier-vintage, modified Marantz/Krell CD players, and puts both of them in the shade in all of the ways that matter to the musical ear. This isn't about Sensational excitement (unless it's on the disc!), its about naturalness, dynamic range& subtlety, effortless definitional clarity and "flow". An open window on the recording. I used to tell myself that the costlier kit "wouldn't be that different" etc. Until I heard it. And tried to find it 2ndhand and ex-dem. (A long journey...I sent many more things back than I kept).

But as Dave2002 and I keep saying (how many times...) if you can't hear the benefit of a better DAC in your system, it's because the system can't reveal it, or your ears fail to hear, or to recognise it. (Which doesn't matter so much if you always enjoy what you've got). The rise of Computer-sourced music has led to terrific R&D into DACs - they go on getting better and cheaper.

Which is why I always say: set a budget, seek advice, try things out at home. I've never made any HiFi purchase (save a cable or two) without a lengthy home trial, which most dealers offer these days. They wouldn't sell much otherwise.

[Stephen Smith]

BWV 988 - just to mention I sent you a brief PM - private message - as I am short of time today I can't post much in the way of a contribution/post at the moment..

If, as it seems, you are new to the forum its accessible from the very top of the screen under "notifications".

[Dave2002]

Jayne

So now we know - you have a rather expensive DAC - http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/products/524/

What do you feed it into, and what loudspeakers?

I guess your system is way up the scale. Another DAC I heard was good comes from Schiit - http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?mai...products_id=16

[jayne lee wilson]

Jayne

So now we know - you have a rather expensive DAC - http://www.audioemotion.co.uk/products/524/

What do you feed it into, and what loudspeakers?

I guess your system is way up the scale. Another DAC I heard was good comes from Schiit - http://schiit.com/cart/index.php?mai...products_id=16

Yes, I'm a bit ashamed at the cost (but - single gay female, no kids, no holidays abroad and I don't drive anymore for health reasons, so give a girl a break etc.) - it was a generous 2ndhand deal, when I read the HFN review ( see archive, 10/2012) I thought , oh I really want to hear that, but I later told the dealer it was too dear just then. 7 months later the distributor kindly emailed me when one came back on a trade-in - just outrageous luck really).

Here it is then...Krell 300CD (built 1997, 2ndhand 2002), modified Marantz CD63KI Sig. (1997, 2ndhand with broken transport 2004) feeding the DAC 8 with Stereolab coax. Then on to the ATC Sca-2/SPA-150 amps driving Harbeth C7 MK.2/Townshend supertweeters. OK now? Almost none of it was new, often less than half-price 2ndhand or ex-dem, took years of financial patience, trial&rejection, mistakes, some heartache and the aforementioned outrageous fortune.

And all because the lady loves her music!

[teamsaint]

i love these threads.
Wish I understood them. Some of your houses must look like the flight deck of the star ship Enterprise. !!

Good luck in your quest Beemer, and sorry to hear about your health issues.
If cash runs really short visit my old thread........

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?5002-Apart-from-going-to-Argos-and-buying-the-one-with-the-most-buttons

[johnb]

Sorry for contributing to the DAC detour but I wonder whether Jayne or anyone else has any views about the Audiolab M-DAC which, I believe, was designed by the same person responsible for the DacMagic.

(I am currently suffering from a prolonged bout of 'glue ear' which greatly diminishes my joy in listening to music, so I'm not looking to buy any new kit in the near future.)

[Stunsworth]

Sorry for contributing to the DAC detour but I wonder whether Jayne or anyone else has any views about the Audiolab M-DAC which, I believe, was designed by the same person responsible for the DacMagic

I've used an M-Dac for around 18 months and greatly enjoyed it. I use it to feed my power amps directly, so there's no separate pre-amp.

The full system is a Mac Mini feeding the USB input of the M-DAC, a pair of valve power amplifiers, and a pair of Quad electrostatics at the end. Easily the best sounding set up I've ever owned.

[amateur51]

Yes, I'm a bit ashamed at the cost (but - single gay female, no kids, no holidays abroad and I don't drive anymore for health reasons, so give a girl a break etc.) - it was a generous 2ndhand deal, when I read the HFN review ( see archive, 10/2012) I thought , oh I really want to hear that, but I later told the dealer it was too dear just then. 7 months later the distributor kindly emailed me when one came back on a trade-in - just outrageous luck really).

Here it is then...Krell 300CD (built 1997, 2ndhand 2002), modified Marantz CD63KI Sig. (1997, 2ndhand with broken transport 2004) feeding the DAC 8 with Stereolab coax. Then on to the ATC Sca-2/SPA-150 amps driving Harbeth C7 MK.2/Townshend supertweeters. OK now? Almost none of it was new, often less than half-price 2ndhand or ex-dem, took years of financial patience, trial&rejection, mistakes, some heartache and the aforementioned outrageous fortune.

And all because the lady loves her music!

Wonderful jlw - shows you've got your priorities right

[pastoralguy]

Hi BWV988. Really sorry to hear about your health issues. Best of luck.

Here's a personal experience.

My father had a stroke many years ago and lost the use of his right hand which prevented him from using vinyl records. Fortunately, cassette tapes were advancing in technology and found those easy to use and they were immune to damage from him constantly dropping them.

Alas, CDs were just too fiddly for him and he rejected the new technology until I managed to get him a Sony machine that could hold up to 400 discs! (I emptied it after he died and 280 discs out of 340 were Beethoven!) He only needed 2 remote controls and he could play whatever he wanted without having to handle the software.

[teamsaint]

Wonderful jlw - shows you've got your priorities right

goes without saying, Ams.

I am going to buy a "Bedside Tivoli" one day.
And I don't even know what one is !!

[BWV 988]

Thanks to everyone for time and effort in replying to my thread I really appreciate it. I will answer each post at some point tonight I'm awfully busy though so it may take some time and I just wanted to say thanks. :)

[amateur51]

goes without saying, Ams.

I am going to buy a "Bedside Tivoli" one day.
And I don't even know what one is !!

I'm tempted too teams

[BWV 988]

I wouldn't, for a moment! Quite a few Forumites have health issues of one kind or another, and mention them quite freely, and there is a good level of support and of course lots of virtual tea and sympathy! I'm useless at the sort of techno/HiFi info you need, but as you illustrated above, knowing what limitations there are, is very germane to providing useful responses!

I too am sorry you're in the wars - but glad that music is providing a source of enjoyment / distraction / even compensation for being confined to quarters.

Please don't be embarrassed - I and others have mentioned our own health problems many times on here!

You know, a good dealer should be happy to come to you and a home demo is always best anyway. If you find one, give 'em a call...most of them are well up-to-speed with Computer Music now.

It's tricky about DAB. It may sound OK on a portable but FM with good reception will always sound better - fuller, more "musical". Simply because DAB runs on a bitrate-reduced, rather dated, mp2 codec. With a good broadband connection that HDs 320 kbps AAC stream on R3 is far better. Still plenty of models doing FM and DAB though.

Lossless files (or any downloads) will have to be stored somewhere. If you use Network Attached Storage, plugged into HiFi or broadband router they'll still need to be organised and played back via a screen of some sort - i.e. laptop, iPad etc. A streaming device in the HiFi usually has a small display, but that makes it tricky to use, at a distance from your chair! It is simpler to store them on the laptop and play them directly into the system from there, via optical/usb into a DAC.

Hi BWV988. Really sorry to hear about your health issues. Best of luck.

Here's a personal experience.

My father had a stroke many years ago and lost the use of his right hand which prevented him from using vinyl records. Fortunately, cassette tapes were advancing in technology and found those easy to use and they were immune to damage from him constantly dropping them.

Alas, CDs were just too fiddly for him and he rejected the new technology until I managed to get him a Sony machine that could hold up to 400 discs! (I emptied it after he died and 280 discs out of 340 were Beethoven!) He only needed 2 remote controls and he could play whatever he wanted without having to handle the software.

Thanks all I don't feel so bad now.

@ Pastoralguy

I'm glad you were able to find something that worked for your father who seemed to like his Beethoven.

There is a lot more info here than I can take in I will have to make notes.

[EdgeleyRob]

Take care BMW.
I am as baffled as you by most of these posts.
I just use a cd player,i pod,computer,radio and a set of headphones.