Audio streamers

[jayne lee wilson]

Why is the expression of horror, or mock-horror at £200 for a budget Dac a "sensible comment"? It's just about the lowest market value for a high-performance Dac, it's just the way it is in that market , it's a relative value. How much would you expect to pay for a half-decent laptop, or even a better-than-basic tablet computer? Even the blessed Kindle only starts at £129, and you don't listen to it playing music. it does seem that many people's sense of value becomes oddly distorted about HiFi. Would you apply the same judgments to Optics?

Apart from that, agree with everything you say in your post no.45!

(**Do seek out the John Atkinson Stereophile article I linked to in my post no.32 - it's insightful, highly intelligent, and very amusing!)

[Dave2002]

Jayne

Re "budget" - try typing in "amazon dac" to a search engine, and you might find things like this one - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Anal...ords=audio+dac This is now getting to be close to budget level. There may even be one which is less than £20.

I actually think that to get a fairly decent DAC it's usually necessary to pay at least £100, perhaps £200, so in principle I agree with your comments from msg 46. However, there are cheaper devices, and some of them are apparently good. The FiiO range has some which are quite well regarded, and some headphone amps which might work well with mobile devices - http://www.amazon.co.uk/E12-Blanc-Po...pd_cp_rec-ht_3 For use with iPhones and iPods a digital dock such as this Pure one may improve SQ - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-iPho...e+digital+dock

With some of the rock bottom units, customer marks for quality may be relative, as often users are noting an improvement from a fairly low level to start with - say a computer output which when compared with something slightly better sounds very inferior.

I haven't heard any of the devices mentioned here, and they may not be up to the standard you and I would like, but there do seem to be many people who have tried things like these, and found them good, and an improvement on whatever they had before. Perceptions of quality are sometimes relative.

[Phileas]

While I believe the SQ of a properly made modern low cost DAC should be as good as the high-end ones, there are other considerations such as features, build quality and appearance.

Personally, if I were in the market for one, £200 for a DAC would be a maximum for me but it would have to include multiple inputs, a good headphone amp and have remote volume control.

Apparently AVI are talking about bringing out a DAC/head-amp combined with a Rasberry Pi. That's something I would happily pay £200 for.

[Beef Oven]

While I believe the SQ of a properly made modern low cost DAC should be as good as the high-end ones, there are other considerations such as features, build quality and appearance.

Personally, if I were in the market for one, £200 for a DAC would be a maximum for me but it would have to include multiple inputs, a good headphone amp and have remote volume control.

Apparently AVI are talking about bringing out a DAC/head-amp combined with a Rasberry Pi. That's something I would happily pay £200 for.

I think it's unlikely that we'll get all that from anyone at £200.

I was thinking of a £300 maximum, but I will probably be disappointed.

[Phileas]

I think it's unlikely that we'll get all that from anyone at £200.

I was thinking of a £300 maximum, but I will probably be disappointed.

Perhaps I'm being a little bit optimistic there. :)

[Dave2002]

Personally, if I were in the market for one, £200 for a DAC would be a maximum for me but it would have to include multiple inputs, a good headphone amp and have remote volume control.

The Beresford Bushmaster model I mentioned earlier satisfies some of your requirements, but not the remote control. If you were to couple it with an Apple Airport Express device (around £80) you should be able to control the volume over your LAN. The DACMagic is also available for just under £200, but you'd still have to find a way of controlling the volume, or connecting it to a network.

Incidentally, for a cheap and perhaps not terribly cheerful DAC there's this for under £40 - http://www.richersounds.com/product/...2/cyp-aud3-192 - which may very well do what it says on the tin - improve the sound from your TV.

[Phileas]

I used to own a Beresford Caiman but sold it to my dad. The Beresfords are a bit naff-looking IMO.

As I said, I'm not in the market for anything at the moment but a remote controlled DAC would be nice for plugging directly into a pair of active speakers.

[Dave2002]

I used to own a Beresford Caiman but sold it to my dad. The Beresfords are a bit naff-looking IMO.

Chacun ....

I don't think they look bad at all, and some other DACs look distinctly weird - that including some more expensive and arguably higher quality models. The Logitech Touch is/was a very nice product, and would probably suit many people who don't aspire to ultra hi-fi, which in my opinion means most people who aren't prepared to spend more than £2k on kit. Unfortunately it's no longer available, though there are still remnants (new) at very high prices, and the second hand price seems to be around £300.

The comments also made in this thread about making sure that most of the rest of the system is compatible make sense. There's not much point in spending £1k or more on a DAC if the rest of the system isn't up to the same standard of quality - assuming of course that £1k or more actually does buy you quality.

One last, but odd comment re kit quality. Years ago we lived in the US and had a (Sony?) boom box with a cassette recorder. I recorded several radio broadcasts on it, including a performance from the UK of the Messiah conducted by Mackerras. It sounded OK. Years later the tapes arrived back in the UK, and I played them on a much higher quality tape deck (that's definitely Sony!). They sound truly dreadful on good equipment - many faults show up which are a total distraction from the music. Guess what though - stick them back into a low quality cassette player and there's a couple of hours of harmless enjoyment to be had. Go figure that!

Re remote controlled DACs, apart from the Logitech Touch, which effectively had that feature, I know of no other.

[Bryn]

Jayne

Re "budget" - try typing in "amazon dac" to a search engine, and you might find things like this one - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Digital-Anal...ords=audio+dac This is now getting to be close to budget level. There may even be one which is less than £20.

Hmm. I might just get one of those for this laptop. Unfortunately, my more portable HP dm1-4027sa does not have an S/PDIF out, though it does offer an HDMI outlet. However, I have yet to find a small DAC with HDMI input. I wonder if HDMI security technology just does not permit such a device?

[Dave2002]

Hmm. I might just get one of those for this laptop. Unfortunately, my more portable HP dm1-4027sa does not have an S/PDIF out, though it does offer an HDMI outlet. However, I have yet to find a small DAC with HDMI input. I wonder if HDMI security technology just does not permit such a device?

There is this device, which might help a bit. There are some interesting constraints on the HDMI, though I think it works OK with 2 channel sources. http://www.amazon.co.uk/ViewHD-Premi.../dp/B00AHS8LD8

[Stunsworth]

I wonder if HDMI security technology just does not permit such a device?

It probably has more to do with the costs of buying a liscence to use HDMI technology - $10,000 a year plus an additional cost per unit sold.

[Bryn]

It probably has more to do with the costs of buying a liscence to use HDMI technology - $10,000 a year plus an additional cost per unit sold.

Turns out there are quite a few low cost devices (one as low and under £11) which claim to extract the 2 channel stereo audio from HDMI and convert it to analogue.

[Dave2002]

Turns out there are quite a few low cost devices (one as low and under £11) which claim to extract the 2 channel stereo audio from HDMI and convert it to analogue.

Yep, but the device I highlighted also converted to digital (SPDIF/Toslink).

PS: It's not clear that it has Toslink, but one of the Amazon reviewers mentioned optical out. In that case it may not have coax digital out. Not necessarily a problem, though some people claim to significantly prefer coax electrical digital output.

[Stunsworth]

Turns out there are quite a few low cost devices (one as low and under £11) which claim to extract the 2 channel stereo audio from HDMI and convert it to analogue.

I guess it depends on the volume you expect to sell.