Audio streamers

[Guest]

By that I mean products like the Pioneer N-50 audio streamer.

What do these products do that you can't do with a normal computer? Really struggling to see why anyone would want to spend £500+ on something like this.

[Thropplenoggin]

You can also get standalone speakers that stream, such as the Cambridge Audio Minx: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Air-100-Wire...dge+audio+minx

They seem very popular but I was put off on another thread by their limitations. I determined to buy a better pair of speakers and stick with CDs, amp for now, rather than go the digital route. If I did, I'd be tempted to buy a decent DAC (Dragonfly, Meridian Explorer) and stream directly from a computer into a decent hi-fi system.

[Stunsworth]

What do these products do that you can't do with a normal computer? Really struggling to see why anyone would want to spend £500+ on something like this.

I use a Mac Mini connected to the hifi, but I think there are several reasons why people might choose one of these in preference.

Size - they're smaller than a computer.

Location - it may not be possible to position a computer close enough to the hifi to connect.

Noise - many computers have a noisy fan that would irritate at low listening levels.

Sound quality - some sound cards don't have a very good audio output - I use my Mac Mini with an external DAC.

[Resurrection Man]

Do you use iTunes, Steve? If so, how do you file the classical items away? How do you view or access or choose which piece you'd like to listen to? lastly, which version are you on?

Still wrestling with the best way of using iTunes for classical music given that it is so track-centric.

In my ideal world, I could navigate down a list of composers, select, say, Beethoven...which would then give me a list of the works (but not the individual tracks aka movements as to my mind that just wastes real-estate on the screen...and also display conductor/orchestra to help distinguish between different versions of the same piece. The Album List view does that but still insists on showing me a column for tracks.

[amateur51]

You can also get standalone speakers that stream, such as the Cambridge Audio Minx: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Air-100-Wire...dge+audio+minx

They seem very popular but I was put off on another thread by their limitations. I determined to buy a better pair of speakers and stick with CDs, amp for now, rather than go the digital route. If I did, I'd be tempted to buy a decent DAC (Dragonfly, Meridian Explorer) and stream directly from a computer into a decent hi-fi system.

You don't know how much this has cheered me up, Throppers

[Thropplenoggin]

You don't know how much this has cheered me up, Throppers

And with the money we'll save, it's a case of trebles all round.

[Dave2002]

And with the money we'll save, it's a case of trebles all round.

A current magazine has reviews of DACs, including some at over £7k, and even mention of some which cost as much as a high performance car. Doubtless these have to be coupled with comparably expensive amps and speakers.

I don't know whether such kit really does sound a lot better. My guess is that some may sound better, but £000s worth better is questionable.

[Dave2002]

Do you use iTunes, Steve? If so, how do you file the classical items away? How do you view or access or choose which piece you'd like to listen to? lastly, which version are you on?

Still wrestling with the best way of using iTunes for classical music given that it is so track-centric.

In my ideal world, I could navigate down a list of composers, select, say, Beethoven...which would then give me a list of the works (but not the individual tracks aka movements as to my mind that just wastes real-estate on the screen...and also display conductor/orchestra to help distinguish between different versions of the same piece. The Album List view does that but still insists on showing me a column for tracks.

I'm not Steve but I'll try to make some comments. It's quite important to get the meta data sorted, otherwise different albums get muddled. You have to provide enough information so that iTunes can distinguish between different "albums", thus for Beethoven 7 for example, you should make sure that the conductor is put in as well as the piece/track details. Different people put the data in different fields. i think I still put the conductor's name under Artist. It gets a bit worse if you have many versions of the same piece by the same artists, e.g 5 versions of Beethoven's 7th by Karajan. Then more ingenuity is required.

Also, do use the Search feature. It works pretty well.

If you're using a Mac, then edit the track field data by using APPLE-I having selected the track or album in iTunes.

I'll be back!

[Stunsworth]

Do you use iTunes, Steve? If so, how do you file the classical items away? How do you view or access or choose which piece you'd like to listen to? lastly, which version are you on?

Yes I use iTunes - the latest version.

As had been mentioned earlier getting the meta-data right is the key to being able to find a track. So for the album title I always include the composer - eg. "Beethoven: Symphony No 5 in C minor". I include the name of the conductor, orchestra and any soloists in the artist field for orchestral pieces, and the ensemble and/or soloist for smaller scale works. I've found it very easy to then find a piece of music using the search facility in iTunes.

[Stephen Smith]

More help on tagging files in iTunes(probably the same as in the post above, but a lot of clear explanation) - have yet to try this myself -- as left to itself classical music has proved disastrous in iTunes for me........

http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/itunes.htm#Problem

(mentioned on this thread - post #1) :

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?6737-Taming-iTunes-amp-iPod-for-Classical-Music&p=240819#post240819

or this one

http://brianabbott.net/projects/how-i-organize-classical-music-in-itunes

[DublinJimbo]

… for the album title I always include the composer - eg. "Beethoven: Symphony No 5 in C minor". I include the name of the conductor, orchestra and any soloists in the artist field for orchestral pieces, and the ensemble and/or soloist for smaller scale works. I've found it very easy to then find a piece of music using the search facility in iTunes.

The secret to getting the most out of iTunes is metadata, Metadata, METADATA!

I have a large library of classical music in iTunes (the equivalent of over 2500 CDs) and can find anything instantly using the built-in search facility. I agree absolutely that the secret is in the meta-data, as summed up by the old adage "rubbish in, rubbish out". The first thing I do with every download I buy and every CD I rip is to apply an absolutely consistent approach to the details in the various fields in what is in essence a very large database. As Stunsworth does, I always include the composer in the album title, and soloists, orchestra, conductor etc in the artist field. I find it invaluable to distinguish as necessary between 'album artist' (global for each album) and 'artist' (differing as necessary on a track-by-track basis): doing so is an invaluable aid for subsequent retrieval. An aid in this respect is the ability to select either the entire album, a selection of tracks, or individual tracks when entering/editing meta-data, so I begin at the global level and apply whatever information is common to all and work down from there to the level of individual tracks. (This may sound time-consuming, but at this stage I now have an established routine which speeds things up considerably — and copy-and-pasting is a godsend.)

It is impossible to overstate the importance of consistently-applied metadata. The time spent is repaid a thousand-fold when it comes to subsequent search and retrieval. Fundamentally, never simply accept whatever metadata comes with downloads or, in the case of ripped CDs, from sources such as Gracenote. Unfortunately, there is no consistency between music providers as to how metadata is provided, so it's up to you to apply the consistency yourself.

When it comes to search and retrieval, the search facility in iTunes is quite powerful out of the box, but the real beauty is when you use 'smart playlists' to fine-tune results, especially when these are set to update on the fly. For example, I use smart playlists to analyse my collection by category (orchestral, symphony, concerto, chamber, instrumental, song, vocal, choral etc) and even by digital quality (better than CD, CD-quality, imported, compressed (AAC, MP3(yuck!)).

In summary, I am delighted with iTunes and its powerful ability to store and retrieve my musical collection. When it comes to the actual listening, I have a MacBook dedicated to music which accesses my music files over the local network. The MacBook is connected through a DAC (the very neat Apogee Duet) to my music system. Adding to the mix is an excellent iTunes add-on called Bit Perfect which ensures the best possible results from the high-resolution downloads in the collection. All in all, I'm a very happy digital camper.

[Stephen Smith]

I have a large library of classical music in iTunes......In summary, I am delighted with iTunes ........All in all, I'm a very happy digital camper.

I am about to choose a music player - all roads (from making the best portable players to overwhelming presence / size) lead to Apple - itunes, iPod - albeit for me on PC. I'd like to ask Dublin Jimbo - or others - if you are using the latest version of iTunes - if so, then from your post it is obviously still possible to present all that data in a reasonably friendly way? (Friendly to "Western classical music").

[Dave2002]

Fundamentally, never simply accept whatever metadata comes with downloads or, in the case of ripped CDs, from sources such as Gracenote. Unfortunately, there is no consistency between music providers as to how metadata is provided, so it's up to you to apply the consistency yourself.

Indeed. I spotted one of my CDs in iTunes over the weekend - Benjamin Britten "Midsummer Night's Dream". I noticed that it had been filed under Mendelssohn! Clearly it wasn't that composer's work, as just a few seconds listening confirmed.

Metadata from online sources is often helpful as a starting point, as it's often easier than starting from scratch, but it's also often incomplete, or sometimes just plain wrong.

Stan Brown has a very helpful website - http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/itunes.htm - though it may be slightly less relevant now as many people have moved away from small players where brevity in the data was perhaps a virtue to enable display on small screens, towards the use of computers as media servers.

PS: I see that Stephen has also pointed out Stan's website in msg 10.

[Beef Oven]

Anyone got a recommendation for a moderately priced, but high-quality DAC?

I'm planning to play music from my iPad through Genelec active speakers via a DAC.

[Stunsworth]

Anyone got a recommendation for a moderately priced, but high-quality DAC?

I don't know if £600 is moderately priced (probably not), but I've been very happy with my Audiolab M DAC. Has a volume control and USB in - so could be used with an iPad and the camera connection kit.