Windows 8 - any views?

[JFLL]

FoxPro takes me back! ... It was an excellent product - very straightforward to use by modern standards.

It certainly is, Don. I've got about a dozen databases using it, including a catalogue of all my recorded music, and another with almost 100,000 records for some research I've been doing for the last twenty years. Its files can also be very easily read in Excel -- except one 'Memo' or free-text field which will be a headache if I ever have to give up FoxPro because it fails to work with whatever OS I use in the future. I daresay some computer whizzo might write me a program to handle this (if only I could find one!)

[Don Petter]

It certainly is, Don. I've got about a dozen databases using it, including a catalogue of all my recorded music, and another with almost 100,000 records for some research I've been doing for the last twenty years. Its files can also be very easily read in Excel -- except one 'Memo' or free-text field which will be a headache if I ever have to give up FoxPro because it fails to work with whatever OS I use in the future. I daresay some computer whizzo might write me a program to handle this (if only I could find one!)

I remember dabbling and finding that I could have converted my FoxPro record database to Access, but that was about the time I gave up the struggle of keeping up with new acquisitions anyway, so I never pursued it. (My database listed every item on a recording as a separate entry - great in use but a nightmare to do with song recitals, etc.)

[Cheapskater]

I am presently evaluating Windows 8 on my four-year old PC hardware. Under the bonnet, I find Win 8 fast and efficient but had a great deal of trouble with drivers for my graphics card (driver signing issues etc!). In the audio department I found it to be v. good. I installed Via HD audio drivers and Foobar2000 audio player (my usual installs on Win 7) without problem and it sounds very sweet, possibly better than Win 7.
However, I may not upgrade (yet) to Win 8 as I have many essential (to me!) security/sound/admin applications installed on Win 7 and really can't face the many hours needed for software rebuild.

[Resurrection Man]

I seem to remember a PC-cognoscenti averring that it was best to skip OS's from Microsoft on the basis that every other one was a pile of poo. So XP (good), Vista (awful), Windows 7 (good), Windows 8 ( well, skip maybe?).

But what do I know...having just re-installed his Mac OS

[gurnemanz]

Thanks for those useful comments which are grist to my mill in making up my mind.

[Cheapskater]

I seem to remember a PC-cognoscenti averring that it was best to skip OS's from Microsoft on the basis that every other one was a pile of poo. So XP (good), Vista (awful), Windows 7 (good), Windows 8 ( well, skip maybe?).


I would agree with that analysis also.

[Dave2002]

This is of interest to me (slightly) because we have machines almost coming out of our ears. It might make sense to get rid of some of the older ones, and use the desk space to support a new one - which we would buy. Mostly we have now shifted to Apple, though I know many would consider that expensive. We have a couple of old machines running XP, and a Dell laptop and an Asus netbook, also with XP. I believe we still need Windows for some reason - swm(n)bo claims that it's necessary for some purposes.

I have friends who have opinions on Windows 7 and 8. One bought a Win 8 machine not long ago and seems pleased with it. He has noted that it has features which relate to touch screens - which he doesn't have, but says they don't affect him. The other, who runs a business, doesn't want to go to Win 8 because he claims that there are problems with drivers etc. He went through this before, and says it's a real pain running a system which doesn't have drivers available for everything which might be needed. My former place of work only upgraded to Windows 7 fairly recently - it seems unlikely that they'll do an upgrade to Win 8 in any short period.

For myself, we could run Windows OSs on our iMacs, though I'm not desperately keen. However, I have experience of Windows running on Macs, and the only significant problems relate to keyboard layout, and possibly mouse configuration. What I find a pain is that there doesn't seem to be an easy way to acquire a legal copy of Windows (either 7 or 8) at an affordable price which will run on a Mac, either using Bootcamp, or on a virtual system such as Virtual Box, Parallels or VM Ware. Large organisations seem to have managed it, but perhaps they can negotiate a deal with MS, and of course there are "enthusiasts" who find ways, which may not strictly comply with the T&Cs.

My non business friend bought his Win 8 PC for something like £400, and it might just satisfy our needs for Windows compatibility.

One final way of operating might be to use our Mac machines, but to use remote login to one PC machine which we could use as a sort of Windows "server". Then the physical machine could be hidden away. The good thing about that - if it could be made to work - would be that it could work over several different screens, several of which are significantly larger and easier to use than those on the Windows machines which we have around the place. However, I'm not sure that running via a LAN would provide a very smooth interaction.

[OldTechie]

I've been running Windows 8 for a while now, and I quite like it. I found it a shock to start with but I have not put on any of the add-on apps that put back the start menu that was introduced with Windows 95 and Windows NT4.

I find it quicker and generally more responsive than Windows 7 on the same hardware (and that was much better then Vista.)

I have learnt to ignore the new windows start screen with its tablet-style start buttons. I hit the windows key (which displays the new infuriating toy town start screen) and then type in a few characters from the application name and hit the enter key. It's just like using DOS or Linux in a console. Not pretty but much quicker than struggling through the menu system.

I have had a few things that were a problem to install because the installer would not work until I set it to Windows 7 compatibility. The main culprits were Java based applications using Install Anywhere.

Being a cautious fellow, I kept my Windows 7 disk and put Windows 8 on a new hybrid one (which accounts for some of the improvement.) Once in a while I have had to go back to it to find something I failed to transfer, and it is very horrid. It takes ages to boot in comparison the Windows 8, and I have installed virtually all the same programs.

So I would recommend Windows 8, but only if you are prepared for a serious learning curve. It might be better to wait for 8.1 slated for August or so, because they may add some options to set the interface to be less revolutionary.

Windows 8 runs well on a MAC using one of the various virtual machine options. Quite a lot of Windows developers do their development on MACs!

[Dave2002]

Windows 8 runs well on a MAC using one of the various virtual machine options. Quite a lot of Windows developers do their development on MACs!

Is there an easy, affordable and legal way to get either Windows 7 or Windows 8 which can be installed on a Mac, or run on a Virtual Machine environment?

Good to hear that technically Win 8 works.

[OldTechie]

Yes, any legal copy of a Windows OS can be installed in a VM environment. Developers generally have access through an MSDN subscription (£££). (You can also create a Windows partition on the MAC disk, and use BootCamp to switch between running the MAC OS or Windows - but then you can't paste text from a MAC email into a Windows application.)

You can't use a copy of Windows that was supplied with a machine - that is locked to the hardware. If you have a copy of, say XP, that was bought as a standalone retail version you can use that (provided you remove it from the existing machine - the license allows only a single installation.) The retail version of Windows 8 only works as an upgrade to an exiting licensed copy. However, you are can buy a "System Builder" OEM copy and use it for personal use instead of installing it on a machine you sell.

The OEM license is downloadable from http://oem.microsoft.com/public/sbli...se_english.pdf but for personal use it refers you to http://personaluselicense.windows.com . From the personal license: "Under our license, we grant you the right to install and run that one copy on one computer (the licensed computer) as the operating system on a computer that you build for your personal use, or as an additional operating system running on a local virtual machine or a separate partition, subject to [some usual restrictions]".

I have not personally done it, but I have contacts who have run Windows on a MAC using Parallels (http://www.parallels.com/uk/products/desktop/) or VMware Fusion (http://www.vmware.com/uk/products/de.../overview.html) and all seem to think it is great. I run VMware on a PC and it works fine.

So the problem is to buy the "System Builder" version. You have a choice of the "Home" version that comes with most PCs, or the Pro version which would be essential if you wanted to connect it to a corporate Windows network. I think you would probably find the standard version to be fine. There is also a Basic version that comes on really cheap PCs, but you can't buy it unless you agree to buy a few hundred thousand copies. For a version comparison see http://windows.microsoft.com/en-GB/windows/compare (I think the "N" versions are some work-around for some EU rules.)

The OEM/System Builder copies seem to be either 32 bit or 64 bit, not dual, so you need to buy the right one. You can't create a 64 bit VM unless your MAC has a 64 bit processor. Providing the MAC is fairly new you should be fine and it would be best to get a 64 bit version of Windows. You can run a 32 bit VM on a 64 bit MAC.

So, £40 for VMWare Fusion and £70 for Windows 8 standard and, if you have a modern MAC, you'll have a much better PC than you can buy for £110!

[gurnemanz]

Very interesting to read people's views. Strangely enough, shortly after starting this thread, my laptop followed my desktop PC down the Swanee, so I needed a replacement urgently. I went to a local dealer where I had bought the previous one. He sold me an Asus X54C for £250 with Windows 7, telling me he wasn't putting Windows 8 on any new computers he was selling (hundreds per week), slamming it in no uncertain terms. So I don't know Windows 8 and consequently can't miss it. I have been quite happy with the present hardware and OS which does all I need it to.

[johnb]

If I buy a new laptop this year I'll go for one with Windows 7 pre-installed through the downgrade rights for Windows 8 (together with the Windows 8 DVD). This setup is commonly available through business and online suppliers. I see little benefit for me in Windows 8.

Those running Windows 8 who want to restore the Start button can install a utility called Start8: http://www.stardock.com/products/start8/

[Dave2002]

Thanks OldTechie

That information about the licenses for Windows and running on VMs appears interesting, and may even be useful.

I think I'll have to assess whether I (we) really need Windows at all now.

It looks as though laptops with Windows 8 are now relatively cheap and hopefully much more powerful than the Asus eee I bought a few years ago.