Squeezebox product range being discontinued (?)

[Dave2002]

Quite an interesting issue this. Firstly we have the notion of using a computer or similar device to serve out music files over a network, and secondly problems of business continuity. I suppose that many of the readers here are still using some form of player, most probably a CD or DVD player, backed up by radio to listen to music. Some will be using computers to listen, though without good sound cards and suitable amplification this is often merely OK, though if users are listening while working ( or vice-versa?) then SQ is not always so important. It's surprising how many people now seem to be listening to something when they're at work, though perhaps that's only in the environments I move in.

Personally I don't have an SB Touch, though I've thought about it often enough. I do have both an SB Classic and an SB Boombox. When these work they are good, though I've found various upgrades have meant that I've has to do what could euphemistically be called maintenance from time to time. Upgrades which manage to lose or reset passwords to subscribed to services are no fun.

I still wonder if it's worth buying a Touch, though if the software/support is gradually going to fade away that might not be so good. I have been wondering more and more whether to buy a Mac Mini, and use that to serve out audio instead - though for good quality a decent DAC would still be required. Whatever the faults of software such as iTunes, I think that having music files stored on a hard drive should be fairly robust and it should still be possible to access and play music via one of the standard model computers for quite some time. I'd prefer a Mac Mini because I think it could fit into a living room without major problems - noise/size and it should be possible to control it from other devices, such as iPads, without having to switch on a TV or monitor to use it.

I feel it's a shame that networked based audio systems are struggling a bit, but many consumers really want plug and play, and faffing around configuring hardware and software is probably only a minority sport. OTOH, I really like it when I can use my computer based systems to select music and switch between different recordings so rapidly, whether this is from straming services such as Napster and Spotify, or from our own CD collection.

Standards and business continuity issues are barriers to continuing adoption of domestic networked music systems, as well as ease of configuration, use and maintenance.

[johnb]

Sorry for this long winded post but I have tried to outline the situation as I know it. Please forgive any errors.

What is the Squeezebox Touch (also applies to earlier models):

Squeezebox Touch has two components: (a) the Touch itself and (b) the Logitech Media Server which is software that runs on a PC, NAS or Server.

The Logitech Media Server (LMS), running on a PC/NAS/Server, enables the Touch to play music files on that PC/NAS/Server, or storage attached to them, and enables the Touch to access streaming sources such as iPlayer, Spotify, MOG, etc, etc using “plugins” for LMS.

The Touch also uses a website (or ‘cloud’) at mysqueezebox.com. The Touch uses this to access streaming sources without going through LMS (so not using the PC/NAS). By default the Touch also downloads firmware updates from mysqueezebox.com, though it seems the firmware can also be updated using a USB stick.

The Touch also has a built in server and can play music files on a HDD plugged into its USB port. However, many people prefer to use LMS and a PC/NAD/Server for this.

There is a very active support community at http://forums.slimdevices.com/index.php which is funded by Logitech. Logitech doesn't involve itself directly in the forum but one or two of their software developers play an active part there.

What is likely to be affected:

The current software is stable and reliable so there is no reason that it can’t be used to play music files in the years ahead, until the Touch develops a hardware fault.

mysqeezebox.com is likely to stay in operation for a minimum of two years (information 'leaked' from Logitech), after that your guess is as good as mine. When mysqueezebox.com is no longer operational the Touch will no longer be able to play streamed sources without using LMS, with its plugins, running on a PC/NAS/Server. Also it won’t be possible to update the Touch’s firmware from mysqueezebox.com – but it seems there are ways of doing that using a USB stick, assuming you have downloaded the firmware files to your computer. (My understanding is that the update issue only affects the Touch as the firmware for other Squeezebox devices is incorporated in the LMS software and updated from your PC/NAS/etc.)

The LMS plugins used for iPlayer, Spotify, etc will continue to operate as now as long as there are no changes to the way those are streamed. However, we know that the BBC periodically makes changes to iPlayer and it is very likely that the same will happen with other sources. This means the continued, medium term, use of these plugins is dependent on continued support from their developers (“Triode”, etc). Triode, for one, has said that he isn’t going anywhere, but whether he will continue to support his plugins for many years into the future is, once again, anyone's guess, especially as the user base will be shrinking.

Having said all that, the Squeezebox range has a community of many very dedicated third party developers (based in the slimdevices forum) who are likely to continue to support the product for many years and who are also likely to find ways round any problems that occur. However the fact remains that it is a dead product range.

At some point in the future Logitech *might* withdraw funding from the semi-independent support forum.

Decisions, decisions:

I couldn’t really recommend someone new to Squeezebox buy a Touch now.

For people who already have Squeezebox products, and who centre their listening around them, the situation is different. There are two points of view: (a) why invest further in a dead product line when it is possible that another manufacturer might jump in to fill the void, (b) there is no guarantee that this will happen and even if it does it is by no means certain that any future product will have the same capabilities as the Touch, so buy spare Touches/Radios while they are available so that you have spares in case of hardware failure, or (c) look round for alternatives such as Sonus, although none have the flexibility or all the features of Squeezebox and many are a great deal more expensive (with no increase audio quality).

For myself, I’ve already bought a spare Touch and I might buy a spare Controller (the remote control) - although there are very good apps for iPhones, iPads and android devices which many prefer to the Controller, so perhaps I should get one of those devices instead.

PS There are rumours that Logitech are likely to bring out a Touch "replacement". I'm guessing, based on their new UE Radio, that, if they do bring out such a product it will almost certainly be a simplified version - probably playing files from directly attached storage, accessing streaming via a new 'cloud' site and with none of the LMS functionality.

[Resurrection Man]

..... There are two points of view: (a) why invest further in a dead product line when it is possible that another manufacturer might jump in to fill the void, (b) there is no guarantee that this will happen and even if it does it is by no means certain that any future product will have the same capabilities as the Touch, so buy spare Touches/Radios while they are available so that you have spares in case of hardware failure, .....

Sage words, indeed. When TiVo in the US pulled the plug on their UK service (having signed a deal instead with Virgin cable so that they could disenfranchise a lare proportion of their (TiVo's) existing customers), we were faced with a similar problem. A band of dedicated TiVo supporters developed their own EPG (electronic programme guide) with dial-up capability so that existing users could continue to use their TiVo's. There was a small nominal cost upfront to pay for an updated set of software but this was well worth it. We bought a secondhand TiVo off eBay, as they were going so cheap, as a backup for spares in the future. Might well be the case for the Touch.

EDIT: How well does the Touch handle filing/locating/selecting classical music, out of interest? Is it still limited in scope like an iPod or even more limited in scope like the ghastly Brennan?

[johnb]

How well does the Touch handle filing/locating/selecting classical music, out of interest? Is it still limited in scope like an iPod or even more limited in scope like the ghastly Brennan?

When you are setting up the Touch, and all Squeezebox products, you point it at the root folder of your music library and it will scan that and all subfolders. You can also use a shortcut, within the root folder, to point to another location and there is also an option to use iTunes folders.

There are two ways you can access your music collection:

1) Browsing the folder structure
The developers only intended this as a supplementary facility for when, say, files hadn't been scanned for tags. However, many people find this approach very useful indeed.

(I tend to rip a CD to its own folder if it contains works by one composer or a collection of smaller pieces but if, say, it contains two major pieces by different composers I will create a folder for each of them - well it suits me.)

2) Searching and browsing on tags
This is intended as the main method to access your music collection but it is entirely dependent on formulating a systematic tagging policy and sticking to it.

You can browse albums, artists, etc alphabetically, or
You can search for a word (or phrase) in Albums, Artists or Genres, etc

For example, I tag all significant pieces as individual "albums" (so, for me, an "album" is a piece, not a CD) and the format I use is:
Composer - Piece - Main Performer, e.g. Shostakovich - Symphony No 10 - Petrenko, RLPO.

So, when I search Albums for "Shostakovich" I get a list of all his works in alphabetical order and can easily select exactly what I am looking for.

Or I could search for Petrenko in Albums and get a list of all the works conducted by him.

(I am glossing over the use of the Artist tag, which many people use for the composer, though I use it for the performers.)

So I can access my music either by searching for a composer/performer or, for collections etc, I can browse the folders for the CD and listen to all the tracks.

There are also plugins by "Erland" which provide extensive use of additional tags and custom search facilities.

PS Both EAC and dbPoweramp (two recommended CD rippers) enable one to access online CD databases for the basic CD information which can then be edited according to ones preferences (within the ripping software) and they can then rip to FLAC setting the tags. Any further tweaking of tags can be done very simply by, say, mp3tag.

[Dave2002]

For myself, I’ve already bought a spare Touch and I might buy a spare Controller (the remote control) - although there are very good apps for iPhones, iPads and android devices which many prefer to the Controller, so perhaps I should get one of those devices instead.

PS There are rumours that Logitech are likely to bring out a Touch "replacement". I'm guessing, based on their new UE Radio, that, if they do bring out such a product it will almost certainly be a simplified version - probably playing files from directly attached storage, accessing streaming via a new 'cloud' site and with none of the LMS functionality.

It's definitely worth using iPeng or Squeezepad if you have an iPad. These may also work OK with the rather smaller iPod Touch devices. I don't know if there are any similar apps for Android or other systems.

I lost my large controller a year or more back - it's probably fallen into a box somewhere. Using the iPad is in any case usually much more convenient. Go for it, if you can.

[johnb]

I don't know if there are any similar apps for Android or other systems.

Yes there are definitely apps for android devices. The most commonly used is Squeezecommander.

[Resurrection Man]

Thanks, Johnb, for the detailed explanation.

For my own listening in my workshop, I've been using HomeSharing on iTunes. I'm really in a quandary here. I'd been using an old PC laptop. On the plus side, it let me view all the columns of my iTunes library on the Mac. The downside was that between it and the Mac, it often lost connection and to resolve it meant a trek back to the house to disable then re-enable Home Sharing. This started to get wearisome. So I cast around for an old iPod Touch and, after a lot of fruitless purchases on eBay (there are some real sharks out there) I have one that is what it purports to be and lets me Home Share but, oh dear. The display information seems to be even worse than on an older iPod nano. Seems to display just Album Artist and Name.which is not much use to man nor beast. So alternatives such as Touch seemed of interest.

Maybe I need to buy a secondhand MacBook! But then I'll end up wasting time playing on the internet. Who said life was simple?

[An_Inspector_Calls]

It's a pity Logitech are withdrawing this range, but I suspect it's not the end of the world.

I use a Squeezebox Classic(s) and hardly ever look at its screen or use its remote control; they're usually controlled from a LAN connected laptop. The most important part of the system is my Netgear NAS (Pro, so no performance issues) with LMS and plug-ins, esp BBC iPlayer. But the Netgear also handles UPnP and other media streaming services so presumably I could, perhaps, switch to using Linn streaming devices; that would depend on what functionallity they can provide.

I'm not panicking, yet!