CD Players and SACDs etc

[Gordon]

[QUOTE=John Skelton;158254]Gordon - that's interesting. I replaced an old Cyrus player, which had begun to skip, last year, and had the use for a week of their CD 8 se player. Problems with the Cyrus designed transport are ... what's the word ... well-documented http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/...layer-troubles.

The player I had sounded good when it didn't (a) refuse to recognise that there was a CD loaded (b) swallow the CD and refuse to disgorge it (as it did with a pristine Harmonia Mundi CD new out of the wrapper). Eventually I retrieved the disc by switching the player off at the plug, turning it upside down, and giving it a playful tap. I'm very careful with CDs, so there was no physical damage on any of the discs I loaded in the Cyrus and I kept to 'Red Book' (didn't try SACD or CD-R) in my 'trial' of the machine. I'd say 2-3 of every 10 discs wouldn't play first time.

I spoke to someone at Cyrus about it and he was very defensive. Then a bit hostile. I've now got a not Cyrus CD player which actually plays my discs.

Thanks for that, comforting that someome else has some experience of the problem. I know of the link you sent too. The player was originally sent off for its first upgrade when it began skipping too often. We might end up with the same solution in the form of a different manufacturer's product unless they can come up with something better this time round. We shall then have a meaningful discussion with the dealer!!! I know of the person in customer service you refer to and I believe that he has "moved on"!

[johnb]

After Googling I get the strong impression that Gordon's problems are pretty much a 'feature' of the Cyrus player and I can't help but think there is a 'not fit for purpose' issue.

Apologies for going off topic, but what are your experiences of the the slot loading mechanism?

I ask because my Meridian player also has a slot loading mechanism which I loath with a vengeance. I am very careful how I handle my CDs and was extremely disappointed to find that the pinch rollers in the mechanism left marks on the surface of the discs. The marks are very faint and are sometimes only visible if I hold the disc under a desk light at certain angles - but nevertheless they make me very uneasy.

I talked to a Meridian representative at a HiFi show (which I went to with the sole purpose of collaring someone from Meridian) and got the strong impression that this was a known issue with their mechanisms. They exchanged the drive, while doing another repair, but the problem still remained.

As a result, I switched almost entirely to a Squeezebox device as a means of playing ripped CDs.

[John Skelton]

After Googling I get the strong impression that Gordon's problems are pretty much a 'feature' of the Cyrus player and I can't help but think there is a 'not fit for purpose' issue.

I suggested that to Cyrus; the response was "no comment" (that was actually what the person I spoke to said; if that was who Gordon encountered his 'moving on' doesn't surprise me!) - which didn't impress me at all. There's something about audio equipment: I can't think of any other area of manufacture where an item would continue to be sold, and tinkered with, for so long and with such a known major fault. That applies to the manufacturer and to the retailers who continue to stock it.

Apologies for going off topic, but what are your experiences of the the slot loading mechanism?

I ask because my Meridian player also has a slot loading mechanism which I loath with a vengeance. I am very careful how I handle my CDs and was extremely disappointed to find that the pinch rollers in the mechanism left marks on the surface of the discs. The marks are very faint and are sometimes only visible if I hold the disc under a desk light at certain angles - but nevertheless they make me very uneasy.

I talked to a Meridian representative at a HiFi show (which I went to with the sole purpose of collaring someone from Meridian) and got the strong impression that this was a known issue with their mechanisms. They exchanged the drive, while doing another repair, but the problem still remained.

As a result, I switched almost entirely to a Squeezebox device as a means of playing ripped CDs.

I gave up on the player very quickly, but I didn't like the slot loading mechanism. Not sure what the supposed advantages are meant to be, but it made me uneasy. And unlike a tray there was an odd sense that you might never see the disc again as it was sucked into the void (that was another thing about the Cyrus - you had to apply some pressure to get the player to 'grab' the disc and removing the disc, it held on tight).

[johnb]

(that was another thing about the Cyrus - you had to apply some pressure to get the player to 'grab' the disc and removing the disc, it held on tight).

Yes, the marks I referred to were faint lines across the disc where the pinch rollers initially grabbed the CD when inserted and when I gently pulled the disc free after ejecting it.

My understanding is the Meridian claimed the reason for using a slot loading mechanism is that they are more robust than the usual tray mechanism.

[Gordon]

There's something about audio equipment: I can't think of any other area of manufacture where an item would continue to be sold, and tinkered with, for so long and with such a known major fault. That applies to the manufacturer and to the retailers who continue to stock it.

Aren't some extremes of the HiFi fraternity somewhat encouraging of that approach, with all those tweaky things that we get suckered with? They play on the anxieties of the HiFi enthusiast. Why shouldn't the manufacturers get on that bandwagon!? It's a normal feature of software to have "upgrades" - an old fashioned engineer like me wonders why they didn't get it right in the first place. Seriously though, this Cyrus is not fit for purpose in my book.

On the issue of slot loaders I loathe them too. I much prefer top loading or at least a tray. The Cyrus doesn't use rollers I'm told and I have never been suspicious of any marks on the discs.

Tune in again next week for another exciting episode in the saga!!

[John Skelton]

Best of luck, Gordon!

[jayne lee wilson]

Aren't some extremes of the HiFi fraternity somewhat encouraging of that approach, with all those tweaky things that we get suckered with? They play on the anxieties of the HiFi enthusiast. Why shouldn't the manufacturers get on that bandwagon!? It's a normal feature of software to have "upgrades" - an old fashioned engineer like me wonders why they didn't get it right in the first place. Seriously though, this Cyrus is not fit for purpose in my book.

On the issue of slot loaders I loathe them too. I much prefer top loading or at least a tray. The Cyrus doesn't use rollers I'm told and I have never been suspicious of any marks on the discs.

Tune in again next week for another exciting episode in the saga!!

Oh, poor Gordon!

Having had my fair share of hifi mishaps in the past - a Denon Cassette deck that was "misrepaired" for 6 months (and chewed up some precious tapes), a QED power amp whose transformer buzzed loudly when neighbours were preparing their evening meal, a pair of dealer-loaned speakers that my underpowered amp blew up the first night I tried them out (and me their only female customer...) - I feel for you!

One of the reasons I ended up with secondhand "classics" was their better build quality; you might need to service them very occasionally, but by and large the approach worked. But the world has changed so much since I was in trying and buying mode.

I've had more than one dealer remark to me about Cyrus reliability - in the light of a stream of rave, or raving, WhatHiFi reviews.

Keep at 'em, you should certainly get some financial redress...

"Tweaking"... I've just got an upgraded AC-12 Mk.2 power supply from Russ Andrews for the Cambridge DacMagic - took a while to burn in, but now - BOY what a bargain. So it can work (helps if there are no moving parts...)

[John Skelton]

The sad thing is that when it does play CDs - raving reviews aside - it's a good sounding player, IMO. In fact I found it initially more congenial than the machine I settled on (in part that might be because I'd had an old Cyrus player with a conventional transport for 6 / 7 years).

speakers that my underpowered amp blew up

I've never done that. Now if that's not tempting fate ...

[Gordon]

JLW: Thanks for the commiserations, I'll pass them on.

....a pair of dealer-loaned speakers that my underpowered amp blew up the first night I tried them out

Dangerous thing to drive insensitive speakers with an underpowered amp - it might well limit on peaks and generate harmonic distortion which is bad for tweeters!!!

There must be an amusing book about HiFI experiences that go wrong.

[Ariosto]

Gordon - that's interesting. I replaced an old Cyrus player, which had begun to skip, last year, and had the use for a week of their CD 8 se player. Problems with the Cyrus designed transport are ... what's the word ... well-documented http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/...layer-troubles.

The player I had sounded good when it didn't (a) refuse to recognise that there was a CD loaded (b) swallow the CD and refuse to disgorge it (as it did with a pristine Harmonia Mundi CD new out of the wrapper). Eventually I retrieved the disc by switching the player off at the plug, turning it upside down, and giving it a playful tap. I'm very careful with CDs, so there was no physical damage on any of the discs I loaded in the Cyrus and I kept to 'Red Book' (didn't try SACD or CD-R) in my 'trial' of the machine. I'd say 2-3 of every 10 discs wouldn't play first time.

I spoke to someone at Cyrus about it and he was very defensive. Then a bit hostile. I've now got a not Cyrus CD player which actually plays my discs.

Cyrus produce some of the most overpriced junk you will ever hear. All the junk that comes out of Cambridge is just a total rip off. I doubt if one of their amps selling for £850 is worth £18.50

[jayne lee wilson]

Cyrus produce some of the most overpriced junk you will ever hear. All the junk that comes out of Cambridge is just a total rip off. I doubt if one of their amps selling for £850 is worth £18.50

Ah, so my race-tuned DacMagic is an exception then (or the classic Burr-Brown 1720k dac in the Krell 300 is below average, not to mention the dCs Ringdac in the Arcam Alpha 9...)... and HFN's Paul Miller's approval of their universal players is just magazine hype...
Did you ever hear their CD player from the eighties, the Cambridge CD3? My, THERE was a CD player... shame I couldn't afford it...
It had QUADRUPLE TD1541s!

[Beef Oven]

Cyrus produce some of the most overpriced junk you will ever hear. All the junk that comes out of Cambridge is just a total rip off. I doubt if one of their amps selling for £850 is worth £18.50

That was ALWAYS my view on Cyrus, but until I read your post, I never heard of anyone with a similar view!

[MrGongGong]

. All the junk that comes out of Cambridge is just a total rip off.

Do they have girls in the choir these days ?

[Ariosto]

Ah, so my race-tuned DacMagic is an exception then (or the classic Burr-Brown 1720k dac in the Krell 300 is below average, not to mention the dCs Ringdac in the Arcam Alpha 9...)... and HFN's Paul Miller's approval of their universal players is just magazine hype...
Did you ever hear their CD player from the eighties, the Cambridge CD3? My, THERE was a CD player... shame I couldn't afford it...
It had QUADRUPLE TD1541s!

There are almost no exceptions in the Hi-Fi world today anyway, and if you compare the best of Japanese and American (with one or two old British exceptions that don't exist now) with the sort of Arcam/Cyrus junk you get now, it's like listening to the Cambridge stuff through 3 feet of cotton wool.

Of course there is good UK equipment around, I've just bought a mic pre-amp from someone who makes them from home here in London. This is superb, but he has a small output. (It's the DAV BG1 which I doubt, understandably, you will have heard of. I bet Gordon has though ...)

And in the past I have made the mistake of buying this junk too. A Cyrus amp can't stand comparison with a 32 year old Japanese amp I still have and which works wonderfully. If you want good sound then listen through reasonable quality headphones, say the sort that costs about £35 - £80.

[jayne lee wilson]

There are almost no exceptions in the Hi-Fi world today anyway, and if you compare the best of Japanese and American (with one or two old British exceptions that don't exist now) with the sort of Arcam/Cyrus junk you get now, it's like listening to the Cambridge stuff through 3 feet of cotton wool.

Of course there is good UK equipment around, I've just bought a mic pre-amp from someone who makes them from home here in London. This is superb, but he has a small output. (It's the DAV BG1 which I doubt, understandably, you will have heard of. I bet Gordon has though ...)

And in the past I have made the mistake of buying this junk too. A Cyrus amp can't stand comparison with a 32 year old Japanese amp I still have and which works wonderfully. If you want good sound then listen through reasonable quality headphones, say the sort that costs about £35 - £80.

Don't do headphones... I did try a friend's Stax (Electrostatic) Earspeakers, yes, much better (but still too close to my ears), but wouldn't my Harbeth C7s meet with your approval? Based on the BBC monitors like M30/M40, built to order about 12 years ago... still made today.

"Today" - where does the date fall after which all is rubbish? My ATC amps were designed in the 1990s, bought in 2005, I'll never change them until I have to.

My 1997 vintage Marantz CD63 KI Sig CD player was upgraded in 2005, (better power supplies, black gate caps etc., copper-plated inside and out), and it certainly put the Arcam 2009 flagship CD37 to shame, even on SACD! But play the same CD on the Krell KAV-300CD (TEAC VRDS transport) feeding the Cambridge DacMagic (with the Mk.2 RA Power supply upgrade) and it is better again - bigger, more spacious, more precise, neutrally opening the window on the venue and the performers. The DacMagic is a masterpiece at a silly price, but a good setup takes it to another level (it sits on a perspex platform which floats on opposed magnets - pleasing to the eye as well. Just don't ask about cables...)

Point is there's still good equipment out there, DACs especially have got better and cheaper through the sheer demand generated by computers as a music source. When you hear the Macbook matching the Krell as a digital source it certainly provokes a thought or two...