Apart from going to Argos and buying the one with the most buttons....

[Mr Pee]

"What HiFi" unbiased?! You have got to be joking!

Well, no, I wasn't, actually. In what way are they biased?

( BTW, I have alse bought stuff from Sevenoaks in the past and found them very helpful, and with a good range of equipment.)

[umslopogaas]

teamsaint, I dont know where you are, but if you are within visiting distance of east Devon, pay a visit to Mike and Caroline at Audio Destination in Tiverton. I've bought several items from them and found them most helpful. In general, I'd expand that to: always seek out your local specialist shop for advice, it will be run by enthusiasts who know their stuff. There is an absolutely bewildering variety of equipment out there, but as others have pointed out, to the non-specialist one box of electronics sounds much like another. I completely agree, too, with the point that the speakers are crucial, spend as much as you can on them. Every time I have upgraded my speakers I have noticed an improvement, though I think now the limiting factor is not my speakers, but my ears.

Of course Argos are fine, if you know what you want and they've got it in stock, but I wouldnt use them unless I knew in advance exactly what I was looking for.

I would also expand on an earlier point: make sure if possible you audition the chosen kit in your own living room. I bought my current amplifier, which I would normally never have been able to afford, because it was much reduced in a sale. I heard it in the demo room at the dealer, which was a very bare, resonant space with no soft furnishings of any kind apart from a chair. When I got it set up in my living room with carpet, soft furnishings, heavy curtains and general furniture clutter, it sounded completely different: fortunately, it still sounded good and I'm happy with it, but you'd never know it was the same machine I heard n the shop.

[Mr Pee]

teamsaint, I dont know where you are, but if you are within visiting distance of east Devon, pay a visit to Mike and Caroline at Audio Destination in Tiverton. I've bought several items from them and found them most helpful. In general, I'd expand that to: always seek out your local specialist shop for advice, it will be run by enthusiasts who know their stuff. There is an absolutely bewildering variety of equipment out there, but as others have pointed out, to the non-specialist one box of electronics sounds much like another. I completely agree, too, with the point that the speakers are crucial, spend as much as you can on them. Every time I have upgraded my speakers I have noticed an improvement, though I think now the limiting factor is not my speakers, but my ears.

I'd agree with much of the above- the small specialist shops are well worth seeking out. However, I don't think there's too much point in spending a lot of money on speakers if what is being fed to them is of poor quality. Start off with a good quality Amp/CD, and you can spend less on the speakers. Start off with a poor quality amp/CD, and good speakers will just highlight the deficencies of the original source.

[Nick Armstrong]

I completely agree, too, with the point that the speakers are crucial, spend as much as you can on them. Every time I have upgraded my speakers I have noticed an improvement

So do I. In the early 90s when I started to be able to think about buying HiFi, I had so-so CD player and amp... but had heard a particular make of speaker at relatives' houses in France and loved the sound for the sort of music I listen to. I pushed the boat out (almost literally in those days) and caught said boat to Calais with the car, and bought a pair. They transformed the system. They are still giving pleasure now, having been harnessed 10 years later to a better system... which I bought to suit the speakers.

Dealers said "oh no mate, it's yer front end that counts, in a hifi system most of the money should go into the CD player, you don't get nothing out if yer don't put nothing in"... but I have never found that - speakers make all the difference as to the type of sound you get (warm, analytical, boxy, spacious, bass-heavy, etc etc).

(I see we disagree with M. Pee on this... )

The trick is to take a couple of CDs along to any shop, CDs you love and know how you want them to sound. I took the Haitink/LPO Vaughan-Williams 'Sea Symphony' (I wanted to hear how those organ notes in the slow movement came out) and the Kondrashin/VPO 'New World Symphony', a demo recording if ever there was one. In both cases, it was because I can't bear a congested, over-boosted bass sound - and there are passages in both that tested that, as well as testing general sound and also handling of vocal and choral music.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxQqWSnsHoA

[Nick Armstrong]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxQqWSnsHoA

Perfection

[MrGongGong]

I'd agree with much of the above- the small specialist shops are well worth seeking out. However, I don't think there's too much point in spending a lot of money on speakers if what is being fed to them is of poor quality. Start off with a good quality Amp/CD, and you can spend less on the speakers. Start off with a poor quality amp/CD, and good speakers will just highlight the deficencies of the original source.

actually this is nonsense mrP

The ONLY thing that actually makes a sound are the speakers ........... a pair of ATC's driven by an ancient Goodmans amp will still sound reasonable as long as you don't push them too hard. I guess there's "not much point spending a lot of money on speakers" if you are listening to low bitrate mp3's (or even Elgar's Oratorios )

[gamba]

Thank you, ferneyetc. Very, very, funny & sore reminder from my early days in trying to put all these items together.

I've found ' Which ' quite useful for assessing the quality of some 'bits & pieces, although nothing equals a reliable Hi-Fi shop with experienced staff & the ability to take along a few CDs for test purposes.

[Mr Pee]

actually this is nonsense mrP

The ONLY thing that actually makes a sound are the speakers ........... a pair of ATC's driven by an ancient Goodmans amp will still sound reasonable as long as you don't push them too hard. I guess there's "not much point spending a lot of money on speakers" if you are listening to low bitrate mp3's (or even Elgar's Oratorios )

I'm sorry, Mr GG, I completely disagree.. rubbish in, rubbish out, is the motto. There is no point in blowing a load of money on quality speakers if you're feeding them with a Tesco Value amplifier. However good the speaker, it cannot improve on what it's given, on the contrary, it will just expose the faults all the more. This is one of the most basic principles when it comes to Hi- Fi.

[MrGongGong]

I'm sorry, Mr GG, I completely disagree.. rubbish in, rubbish out, is the motto. There is no point in blowing a load of money on quality speakers if you're feeding them with a Tesco Value amplifier. However good the speaker, it cannot improve on what it's given, on the contrary, it will just expose the faults all the more. This is one of the most basic principles when it comes to Hi- Fi.

Oh dear
I guess you don't listen to speakers very often then ?
In my experience I have found that as they are the ONLY thing that makes a sound they are the thing one should pay the most attention to
the build quality of really cheap speakers is horrible and a basic cheap amp is not too expensive

of course better quality equipment will give better quality results
but you seem to be advocating cheap speakers which will very quickly fall apart ................ (JBL control 1s are cheap and reasonable )

[Mr Pee]

Oh dear
I guess you don't listen to speakers very often then ?
In my experience I have found that as they are the ONLY thing that makes a sound they are the thing one should pay the most attention to
the build quality of really cheap speakers is horrible and a basic cheap amp is not too expensive

of course better quality equipment will give better quality results
but you seem to be advocating cheap speakers which will very quickly fall apart ................ (JBL control 1s are cheap and reasonable )

Of course I listen to speakers often. And the sound they make depends on the signal they receive. Simples.

[Ferretfancy]

teamsaint made a request for friendly assistance about buying a sound system on a modest budget, but as so often happens on these boards the discussion has once again degenerated into petty squabbles.
We all know that good speakers perform at their best with a good source, but some seem to have forgotten that we should be offering advice.
I'm getting a little tired of the incessant point scoring.

[MrGongGong]

teamsaint made a request for friendly assistance about buying a sound system on a modest budget, but as so often happens on these boards the discussion has once again degenerated into petty squabbles.
We all know that good speakers perform at their best with a good source, but some seem to have forgotten that we should be offering advice.
I'm getting a little tired of the incessant point scoring.

Actually, I was trying to correct what I think was incorrect "advice" from our resident cyclist
but apologies if this was misconstrued

[amateur51]

Perfection

Not quite ... I wanted a Straw Dogs-type ending to that sketch

Naturally Python would have provided one but not the 'alternative' comedians of the 1980s.

I've just experienced superb service from two young women at my local O2 shop - I wasn't patronised once and left feeling like ... lordy, I felt like I was a valued customer

[amateur51]

Actually, I was trying to correct what I think was incorrect "advice" from our resident cyclist but apologies if this was misconstrued