Does playing electronic music tend to damage speakers more than "ordinary" music?

[Dave2002]

I do wonder whether much of the commentary I've read about low power amps and speaker damage is in fact completely wrong.

Specifically though I now have another "issue". Having bought a pair of KEF LS50s - partly on JLW's recommendation, but also after hearing a demo, I assumed that these would work with my amps.
I have a couple of so-called Class T amps - which sound nice - but are not very high powered. Checking on these and the speaker power ratings provided by KEF these should not be used - though whether they would actually cause damage I'm not sure. I don't want to find out.

So - what's my backup plan?

I have several other amps including an old Rotel - and a Pioneer which were good in their day, but are probably getting a bit past it now. These will work at around 25-30 W - which I had thought was OK - but the KEF documentation suggests a range of 40-100W.

Final option - a Marantz 7200 which I bought second hand a few years ago, and which has had hardly any use. This particular amp has two operation modes - one is Class A, the other Class AB.

Class A should - allegedly - give lower distortion - though also generate a lot of heat. Class AB should be capable of going well into the range specified by KEF.

Do all the warnings really mean that I should only operate this in the Class AB mode - which goes up to 100W. Many enthusiasts use valve amps, which quite often have low power ratings, though big ones are available.

Or is this concern about power ratings really just a way to get consumers to buy more stuff? If genuine, then maybe I really do need to buy a new high powered amp, but it may just be a way for companies to avoid dealing with issues and make (perhaps) greater profits. [See the current discussions elsewhere on "Right to repair"]

[mikealdren]

Valve amps are a different kettle of fish and I suspect they are less vulnerable to short term overloads.

[gradus]

High efficiency speakers work well with low power output amps. It was all so simple in the sixties, Lowther TP1 or Audiovector for example with a modestly powered 20 watts per channel Lowther/Radford/Leak or Quad power amp. More than enough volume and clipping free. I daresay they would still sound good now and be capable of producing electronic music adequately.

[Quarky]

Do you guys make use of Oscilloscopes (obtainable quite cheaply) for studying waveforms?

[jayne lee wilson]

I do wonder whether much of the commentary I've read about low power amps and speaker damage is in fact completely wrong.

Specifically though I now have another "issue". Having bought a pair of KEF LS50s - partly on JLW's recommendation, but also after hearing a demo, I assumed that these would work with my amps.
I have a couple of so-called Class T amps - which sound nice - but are not very high powered. Checking on these and the speaker power ratings provided by KEF these should not be used - though whether they would actually cause damage I'm not sure. I don't want to find out.

So - what's my backup plan?

I have several other amps including an old Rotel - and a Pioneer which were good in their day, but are probably getting a bit past it now. These will work at around 25-30 W - which I had thought was OK - but the KEF documentation suggests a range of 40-100W.

Final option - a Marantz 7200 which I bought second hand a few years ago, and which has had hardly any use. This particular amp has two operation modes - one is Class A, the other Class AB.

Class A should - allegedly - give lower distortion - though also generate a lot of heat. Class AB should be capable of going well into the range specified by KEF.

Do all the warnings really mean that I should only operate this in the Class AB mode - which goes up to 100W. Many enthusiasts use valve amps, which quite often have low power ratings, though big ones are available.

Or is this concern about power ratings really just a way to get consumers to buy more stuff? If genuine, then maybe I really do need to buy a new high powered amp, but it may just be a way for companies to avoid dealing with issues and make (perhaps) greater profits. [See the current discussions elsewhere on "Right to repair"]

It finally comes down to that dynamic headroom I mentioned above: how much instantaneous power the amp can provide into sudden peaks - musical climaxes; and - crucially - what level you tend to listen at. Your 7200 spec sheet shows a bit more in AB (120w) but far lower (35w) in Class A. This is very typical of Class A/AB designs (my own ATCs cross on auto from A to A/B when necessary - when musical demands are higher). Pure Class A amps are usually low-powered and/or very expensive (And why the classic Krells of the 1980s/90s were so revolutionary - high-power and very, very expensive!). This is why you may see SET Valve Amps rated at under 10w used with Horn Speakers (e.g. Klipsch) rated at....99db sensitivity. Horses for courses.

According to spec sheets, the KEF LS50s are 85db sensitivity, between min 3.2 and nominal 8 ohms impedance. That is fairly demanding at high volumes, but much will depend on where the lowest impedances occur. It only really matters if it is broadly across the midrange, but this would be unusual in latter-day designs. With KEF, it probably only decreases at HF and shouldn't matter too much.
So your dealer was right to suggest using a more powerful amp. As I said, its why I ended up concluding "excess is best" in most situations and went for very high powered amps with a lot of headroom. Sadly the latter isn't always included on spec sheets, but you could write to the designers and try to find out.

But it does come back to the size of your room and your typical volume level in music with a wide dynamic range. In the situation I described above, I always found Pianos and Choruses the most demanding, with the giveaway overload on peaks. You could try those carefully and see what happens.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I think Jayne has hit the nail on the head “ crucially - the level you tend to listen at.” I get the impression that lot of hifi reviews are done by people who tend to listen louder than most of us. In a studio cubicle situation it always surprised me how loud people monitored even classical music . For rock the levels were even louder - painfully so. The argument was that you always needed to listen louder than normal to hear say distortion on an individual channel. So in a thirty year career by the time people got to doing the big mixes hearing loss particularly on top frequencies could be a problem. I’ve noticed at rock concerts the PA mixers often wear ear plugs (as indeed do the musicians).
I think all this has percolated into the domestic market where the assumption is you need for example 80w plus for a clean loud sound. The problem is that a lot of people making these claims I suspect have damaged their hearing from years of listening too loud and they are more of less chasing their hearing loss with ever increasing amounts of amplification. 80 W of power in a normal living room is one helluva lot of amplification. I think mine is 22w per channel into 8ohms.For me that’s plenty but then because of a lifetime listening too loud I’ve got quite bad tinnitus and don’t listen at home at anything like the level you’d get in the first 15 rows at the Royal Festival Hall ( a loud venue) or the Barbican (even louder).

[jayne lee wilson]

Absolutely, but don't overlook room size. Levels which barely fill my current 9x6m room could sound very loud in a 5x3. So even a volume setting that seems just adequate in a larger room may result in subtle (harshness/congestion) or overt overload, should the amp/speaker relationship be less than ideal (hard to achieve anyway)...

There is no easy solution - apart from lots of power! (Or perhaps a one-brand integrated system). See above.
Most of my own discoveries came from trial and error, with much fruitless questioning (of designers and dealers) and heartache along the way...
Finally, with the help of the better magazines - HiFi News and Stereophile - I found my way to some understanding of the issues involved.

But its all out there on the web now, if you have the patience for the research....

[Ein Heldenleben]

To answer Dave’s question in #16 this is the amp spec for the wireless version of the LS50’s . The amp has a surprisingly high power rating if I’ve read the brief spec correctly

System power: LF 280W class D, HF 100W class A/B, Max. SPL: 108dB

That sound pressure level of 108db ( presumably at 1 metre in anechoic chamber) is 2db short of the pain threshold . Listening for any length of time at that level is definitely not recommended

[Bryn]

To answer Dave’s question in #16 this is the amp spec for the wireless version of the LS50’s . The amp has a surprisingly high power rating if I’ve read the brief spec correctly

System power: LF 280W class D, HF 100W class A/B, Max. SPL: 108dB

That sound pressure level of 108db ( presumably at 1 metre in anechoic chamber) is 2db short of the pain threshold . Listening for any length of time at that level is definitely not recommended

"I heard that, pardon".

[Dave2002]

I recently came across an unexpected part of a web site - maybe these are quite common - but I'd not seen one before. It was the specification for a couple of theatres - presumably of interest to touring companies including musicians and lighting technicians.

There were details of all the lights installed, and the total load on the lighting rig etc., but there were also specs of amplification.
The amp specs were over a kilowatt!

[matthewfox]

I believe that high efficiency speakers work well with low power output amps. These speakers https://primesound.org/best-powered-speaker-for-dj/ seem to be a good option