Turntables for vinyl

[Constantbee]

A feature on yesterday’s Channel 5 Gadget about new ‘plug and play’ vinyl turntables (they don’t need an amp, just plug into speakers), comparing 3 models for sound production and quality might interest some people here. An estimated 18% (!) of new releases are currently on vinyl but we don’t have a breakdown according to genre, eg classical or jazz. A quick search on Amazon for new vinyl classical releases brings up mainly titles that look like big sellers, which suggests that the labels are being a bit cautious about what they release on vinyl, so the main titles will be things like Karajan on Deutsche Grammophon with the Albinoni Adagio and Pachelbel Canon, all good Classic fm staples.

Having had so much trouble with wear and tear and storage of vinyl over my lifetime I’m really not sure whether I’d want to reinvest in it, but it seems a lot of people do. Vinyl still has a quaint charm for me and sometimes the sleeve notes are entertaining and informative. I’m still trawling through what remains of a relative’s World Record Club subscription LP’s trying to decide how many are worth keeping. There’s only a limited number of 12 inch vinyl fruit bowls and wall clocks one really needs

[cloughie]

A feature on yesterday’s Channel 5 Gadget about new ‘plug and play’ vinyl turntables (they don’t need an amp, just plug into speakers), comparing 3 models for sound production and quality might interest some people here. An estimated 18% (!) of new releases are currently on vinyl but we don’t have a breakdown according to genre, eg classical or jazz. A quick search on Amazon for new vinyl classical releases brings up mainly titles that look like big sellers, which suggests that the labels are being a bit cautious about what they release on vinyl, so the main titles will be things like Karajan on Deutsche Grammophon with the Albinoni Adagio and Pachelbel Canon, all good Classic fm staples.

Having had so much trouble with wear and tear and storage of vinyl over my lifetime I’m really not sure whether I’d want to reinvest in it, but it seems a lot of people do. Vinyl still has a quaint charm for me and sometimes the sleeve notes are entertaining and informative. I’m still trawling through what remains of a relative’s World Record Club subscription LP’s trying to decide how many are worth keeping. There’s only a limited number of 12 inch vinyl fruit bowls and wall clocks one really needs

How far are you going back and are they mono or stereo? The other consideration is their condition - I assume that will help the decision where they are ‘players’ or ‘ornaments’. I’m sure it will be a fun task.
Whilst I have always kept my record deck connected and still have a few LPs, I see no real joy in going back to vinyl.

[Keraulophone]

Not sure about ‘plug and play’ turntables, but this week I changed my cartridge (from a 30yo Ortofon MC15 to a Dynavector DV-20xL + P75 phono amp already in use) and the old Thorens TD126 Mk4 is now sounding better than ever (through valve amp, PMC speakers and Stax headphones). The first record I put on was Miles Davis ’Round About Midnight, a Christmas present for Mrs K. She didn’t know I already had the CD, but the LP sounded more engaging and present, the players back in 1955/56 almost tangible in the room. The lack of surface noise is likely a characteristic of the new cartridge/stylus (which will need a running-in period) of and of course the new pressing. The extent to which this record-playing experience is psychological is difficult to judge. So much care has to be invested in setting up and maintaining the system (cartridge protractor, stylus balance, record clamp, phono amp settings, valve selection, record cleaning, etc) that there is bound to be an element of confirmation bias. Anyway, I’m so glad I’ve held on to my vinyl, collected over more than five decades, and still in good condition.

[Bryn]

How far are you going back and are they mono or stereo? The other consideration is their condition - I assume that will help the decision where they are ‘players’ or ‘ornaments’. I’m sure it will be a fun task.
Whilst I have always kept my record deck connected and still have a few LPs, I see no real joy in going back to vinyl.

[teamsaint]

Agree with Cloughie. New vinyl is strictly for fun...the odd present or whatever. I’m certainly keeping mine,and Play things from time to time , and I might just invest in a new mid range turntable at some point, but thats about the size of it. Vinyl does have some things going for it, would really miss mine.

[Stunsworth]

If I was getting into vinyl these days I’d consider a Rega, or maybe Project, as the minimum standard of turntable. Cheap turntables can cause a lot of damage to LPs.

These days I’m using a Thorens TD 124 turntable, but also have a Roksan Xerxes.

I’ve been buying mainly vinyl for a couple of years (Qobuz and Roon take care of the digital side of things). Most has been jazz or rock either purchased new, or used from Discogs. I still have around 1,000-1,500 classical LPs, but don’t play them much these days - I intend to change that.

[Stunsworth]

Not sure about ‘plug and play’ turntables, but this week I changed my cartridge (from a 30yo Ortofon MC15 to a Dynavector DV-20xL + P75 phono amp already in use) and the old Thorens TD126 Mk4 is now sounding better than ever (through valve amp, PMC speakers and Stax headphones). The first record I put on was Miles Davis ’Round About Midnight, a Christmas present for Mrs K. She didn’t know I already had the CD, but the LP sounded more engaging and present, the players back in 1955/56 almost tangible in the room. The lack of surface noise is likely a characteristic of the new cartridge/stylus (which will need a running-in period) of and of course the new pressing. The extent to which this record-playing experience is psychological is difficult to judge. So much care has to be invested in setting up and maintaining the system (cartridge protractor, stylus balance, record clamp, phono amp settings, valve selection, record cleaning, etc) that there is bound to be an element of confirmation bias. Anyway, I’m so glad I’ve held on to my vinyl, collected over more than five decades, and still in good condition.

I use an Audio Technica AT 33 PTG, it’s a fabulous cartridge, and I’m currently on my second one. A useful way of logging how many hours a cartridge been used for is to keep a click counter next to the turntable and click it after every side. Since most LP sides are around 20 minutes divide the counter by 3 to get the number of hours played.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

My only twopennyworth would be to say "avoid direct drive turntables".

[HighlandDougie]

but also have a Roksan Xerxes.

I had had a Xerxes for twenty five years but the power supply was kaput so, one thing leading to another, I ended up buying a new Xerxes, new Roksan arm and an Ortofon MC cartridge to supplant the trusty old Dynavector. As Keraulophone says, the setting up is a rather intricate process but I have to say that the end results are well worth it. I just really like how it sounds. Even dafter was buying a turntable for my system in France, where I had no LPs stored away, unlike here in Scotland. Clearaudio model, easily set up but I then discovered that eBay France was a great source of vinyl - 50 LPs for 50 euros etc - which often came smelling of having been stored in a garage or somewhere similar. And sometimes containing a somewhat poignant birthday message such as, "à papa". The vinyl naysayers are, of course, right - CDs don't have audible scratches (not really) and digital downloads allow one to hear more of the music but where's the joy - or romance - in a FLAC file.

[Stunsworth]

My only twopennyworth would be to say "avoid direct drive turntables".

That depends on the turntable. I nearly bought one of these before I got the Thorens...

https://dougbradyhifi.com/collections/vinyl-turntable/products/technics-sl1200g-turntable

I can’t say I’m keen on the looks, but it’s a cracking turntable.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Not sure about ‘plug and play’ turntables, but this week I changed my cartridge (from a 30yo Ortofon MC15 to a Dynavector DV-20xL + P75 phono amp already in use) and the old Thorens TD126 Mk4 is now sounding better than ever (through valve amp, PMC speakers and Stax headphones). The first record I put on was Miles Davis ’Round About Midnight, a Christmas present for Mrs K. She didn’t know I already had the CD, but the LP sounded more engaging and present, the players back in 1955/56 almost tangible in the room. The lack of surface noise is likely a characteristic of the new cartridge/stylus (which will need a running-in period) of and of course the new pressing. The extent to which this record-playing experience is psychological is difficult to judge. So much care has to be invested in setting up and maintaining the system (cartridge protractor, stylus balance, record clamp, phono amp settings, valve selection, record cleaning, etc) that there is bound to be an element of confirmation bias. Anyway, I’m so glad I’ve held on to my vinyl, collected over more than five decades, and still in good condition.

Thorens TD 160B a for me. Performance massively improved when I discovered the rubber drive belt had a stretch in it and when I noticed the earth connector had rusted over causing a hum. The joys of analogue..... .
Seriously though the build quality of 70’s hifi means that my TRIO amp ( all the metal knobs on it are properly machined not plastic) and Kef speakers are still going strong whereas my 90’s tape deck has packed up and my Rotel CD disk drawer won’t open properly ...

[richardfinegold]

Not sure about ‘plug and play’ turntables, but this week I changed my cartridge (from a 30yo Ortofon MC15 to a Dynavector DV-20xL + P75 phono amp already in use) and the old Thorens TD126 Mk4 is now sounding better than ever (through valve amp, PMC speakers and Stax headphones). The first record I put on was Miles Davis ’Round About Midnight, a Christmas present for Mrs K. She didn’t know I already had the CD, but the LP sounded more engaging and present, the players back in 1955/56 almost tangible in the room. The lack of surface noise is likely a characteristic of the new cartridge/stylus (which will need a running-in period) of and of course the new pressing. The extent to which this record-playing experience is psychological is difficult to judge. So much care has to be invested in setting up and maintaining the system (cartridge protractor, stylus balance, record clamp, phono amp settings, valve selection, record cleaning, etc) that there is bound to be an element of confirmation bias. Anyway, I’m so glad I’ve held on to my vinyl, collected over more than five decades, and still in good condition.

Sorry to put a pin in the balloon, but your lp was in all probability made from a digital master, as most lps of that vintage were digitalized and now the master tapes are to fragile to be used to mass produce lps (Google “sticky tape phenomenon “) and many master tapes were indeed destroyed a few years back in a massive fire( Google that as well). Now, once a recording goes through any digitalization, whatever theoretical advantages analog has over digital (for the record—pun intended—these theoretical advantages, imho, are rubbish), like our virginity, can only be lost once and never regained. So most of the newly issued lps of classic recordings are a bunch of 1s and 0s that instead of being sent to a DAC are instead converted by a DAC into an analog wave form which is then embedded in a slab of petroleum, and ultimately extracted with an expensive sewing needle. This needle is then damaging the grooves of the petroleum slab with each playing.
As you point out, the expectation bias is significant, along with the enjoyment of artifact, such as the sound of the needle drop, the occasional pop and click, the dust bunny that sticks to the stylus and suddenly makes the recording garbled...If you and other vinylstas enjoy that, please continue to do so. It just angers me when vinylistas argue that such artifacts make the sound superior to digital, and the prices of these lps is really soaking the gullible. One lp will cost the same as a 10 CD reissue, and as you note, it deteriorates over time. Hey, it’s your shekels...
When I get the urge to enjoy vinyl artifact, I fry bacon in the background and kick the CD player a few times to induce skipping. Cheaper than lps, and you get lunch out of it.
As the OP notes, these plug and play turntables come complete with an embedded phono preamps. I had a nephew buy one and it had a hum
that try as we might we couldn’t eliminate. The amplification required for the low output signal of a cartridge is considerable, and ground loops can form, especially with other digital equipment, like a streamer, CD player, a computer, oven, refrigerator, your phone...I suspect these all in one turntable-amp combos are more susceptible to ground loops just because all the electronics are crammed into a tight space, and the parts are probably cheaper than buying separates as well. Caveat emptor...

[teamsaint]

But then again, vinyl sales are driving revenues, which helps the musicians, as well as the record companies.

And it isn’t as if other modes of delivery are problem free.

[jayne lee wilson]

Sorry to put a pin in the balloon, but your lp was in all probability made from a digital master, as most lps of that vintage were digitalized and now the master tapes are to fragile to be used to mass produce lps (Google “sticky tape phenomenon “) and many master tapes were indeed destroyed a few years back in a massive fire( Google that as well). Now, once a recording goes through any digitalization, whatever theoretical advantages analog has over digital (for the record—pun intended—these theoretical advantages, imho, are rubbish), like our virginity, can only be lost once and never regained. So most of the newly issued lps of classic recordings are a bunch of 1s and 0s that instead of being sent to a DAC are instead converted by a DAC into an analog wave form which is then embedded in a slab of petroleum, and ultimately extracted with an expensive sewing needle. This needle is then damaging the grooves of the petroleum slab with each playing.
As you point out, the expectation bias is significant, along with the enjoyment of artifact, such as the sound of the needle drop, the occasional pop and click, the dust bunny that sticks to the stylus and suddenly makes the recording garbled...If you and other vinylstas enjoy that, please continue to do so. It just angers me when vinylistas argue that such artifacts make the sound superior to digital, and the prices of these lps is really soaking the gullible. One lp will cost the same as a 10 CD reissue, and as you note, it deteriorates over time. Hey, it’s your shekels...
When I get the urge to enjoy vinyl artifact, I fry bacon in the background and kick the CD player a few times to induce skipping. Cheaper than lps, and you get lunch out of it.
As the OP notes, these plug and play turntables come complete with an embedded phono preamps. I had a nephew buy one and it had a hum
that try as we might we couldn’t eliminate. The amplification required for the low output signal of a cartridge is considerable, and ground loops can form, especially with other digital equipment, like a streamer, CD player, a computer, oven, refrigerator, your phone...I suspect these all in one turntable-amp combos are more susceptible to ground loops just because all the electronics are crammed into a tight space, and the parts are probably cheaper than buying separates as well. Caveat emptor...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-z6u5hFgPk

[PHS]

Sorry to put a pin in the balloon, but your lp was in all probability made from a digital master, as most lps of that vintage were digitalized and now the master tapes are to fragile to be used to mass produce lps (Google “sticky tape phenomenon “) and many master tapes were indeed destroyed a few years back in a massive fire( Google that as well). Now, once a recording goes through any digitalization, whatever theoretical advantages analog has over digital (for the record—pun intended—these theoretical advantages, imho, are rubbish), like our virginity, can only be lost once and never regained. So most of the newly issued lps of classic recordings are a bunch of 1s and 0s that instead of being sent to a DAC are instead converted by a DAC into an analog wave form which is then embedded in a slab of petroleum, and ultimately extracted with an expensive sewing needle. This needle is then damaging the grooves of the petroleum slab with each playing.
As you point out, the expectation bias is significant, along with the enjoyment of artifact, such as the sound of the needle drop, the occasional pop and click, the dust bunny that sticks to the stylus and suddenly makes the recording garbled...If you and other vinylstas enjoy that, please continue to do so. It just angers me when vinylistas argue that such artifacts make the sound superior to digital, and the prices of these lps is really soaking the gullible. One lp will cost the same as a 10 CD reissue, and as you note, it deteriorates over time. Hey, it’s your shekels...
When I get the urge to enjoy vinyl artifact, I fry bacon in the background and kick the CD player a few times to induce skipping. Cheaper than lps, and you get lunch out of it.
As the OP notes, these plug and play turntables come complete with an embedded phono preamps. I had a nephew buy one and it had a hum
that try as we might we couldn’t eliminate. The amplification required for the low output signal of a cartridge is considerable, and ground loops can form, especially with other digital equipment, like a streamer, CD player, a computer, oven, refrigerator, your phone...I suspect these all in one turntable-amp combos are more susceptible to ground loops just because all the electronics are crammed into a tight space, and the parts are probably cheaper than buying separates as well. Caveat emptor...

Absolutely! My only justification for buying a turntable would be to play Lps that haven't made it to cd.