CD Player Damaging CDs?

[Katzelmacher]

Recently, I’ve noticed that when I play CDs (particularly ones I haven’t played for a while) on my main system, several of them skip. When I take them out to examine them prior to performing the ritual of the cleansing, I’ve noticed some slight surface scratches - nothing I’d consider a hold-up to a clean play but my system seems to notice them and duly won’t play them.

These are, in most cases, discs that I’ve only ever played on my main system (a Cambridge Audio set-up I’ve had for twelve years). I’ve played some of these discs on another, cheaper system - and the scratches don’t register.

The question is: is the laser (or whatever) damaging the discs (and if so), is there any way I can repair them so they ‘work’ again? I’ve tried various solutions,( including a strange one involving the insides of banana skins !) but so far no joy.

Thanks in advance! :)

[jayne lee wilson]

Recently, I’ve noticed that when I play CDs (particularly ones I haven’t played for a while) on my main system, several of them skip. When I take them out to examine them prior to performing the ritual of the cleansing, I’ve noticed some slight surface scratches - nothing I’d consider a hold-up to a clean play but my system seems to notice them and duly won’t play them.

These are, in most cases, discs that I’ve only ever played on my main system (a Cambridge Audio set-up I’ve had for twelve years). I’ve played some of these discs on another, cheaper system - and the scratches don’t register.

The question is: is the laser (or whatever) damaging the discs (and if so), is there any way I can repair them so they ‘work’ again? I’ve tried various solutions,( including a strange one involving the insides of banana skins !) but so far no joy.

Thanks in advance! :)

If the CD Player (model no.?) is itself 12 years old and never been serviced, then my instinct would be that is where the fault lies, not with the discs themselves. Especially as you say they play fine on another model.
Scratches on CDs are usually pretty innocuous, unless they are - very obvious and on the label side (visible right through); or running around the disc in the spiral direction of the pits....but these are often very hard to see...

If the laser mech is accessible with the lid off, you can (very...!) gently clean the laser with cotton buds and isopropyl. That often works very well. But a first-base easier thing to try would be a lens cleaner e.g.:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CM47KU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Not invariably effective but worth a shot... which CD cleanser are you using, BTW?
You could try emailing Cambridge about it and ask about a laser service. They will probably tell you to contact the dealer though...who, if they're any good, would whip the lid off and.....see above.

[Dave2002]

I agree with JLW - slight scratches should not affect playback. If the CDs work on one player and not on another that tends to suggest that the player is unable to read or error correct the data from the CD. However, if you can be sure that one of the players is actually causing the scratches, then that should be looked at, and repaired or discarded. Mostly the scratches will arise from handling or careless storage.

With badly scratched CDs it may be worth trying to clean or polish the surface, but if the scratches are light, and the CDs play in some players, then it's probably best not to touch the CDs, or at least only give them a very light clean - no abrasive material etc. For badly scratched CDs it may be worth trying an aggressive "clean", which might involve all sorts of nasty things you really wouldn't want to use under normal conditions, and which could if done badly lead to unwanted material getting into the players. It's not worth trying to save one CD and wrecking the player.

The tracking arm might have come loose in the CD player, or the stepper motors or whatever is used to keep the laser following the spiral track on the CD - there's a feedback system - may have become worn.

Try cleaning the laser lens as suggested first, then consider a repair or replacement of the CD player which is unable to track the CDs.

[Cockney Sparrow]

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?10566-Unplayable-new-CDs

(I''ve not re-read that thread....)

[Cockney Sparrow]

.......If the laser mech is accessible with the lid off, you can (very...!) gently clean the laser with cotton buds and isopropyl. That often works very well. But a first-base easier thing to try would be a lens cleaner e.g.:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000CM47KU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Not invariably effective but worth a shot... which CD cleanser are you using, BTW?
You could try emailing Cambridge about it and ask about a laser service. They will probably tell you to contact the dealer though...who, if they're any good, would whip the lid off and.....see above.

On the subject of cleaning a CD, I have used a perspex suitable cleaner (from my local auto factor/shop). Same principle as windowlene original - a fine abrasive (finer than in windowlene) to take fine scratches and grime off perspex. I've tried it with an irredeemable CD of small value - think it helped - IIRC. Given a final rinse with rubbing alcohol or water & then distilled water. As ever (to cover myself) if tempted try it on the surface of an unimportant CD and see what you think about it.

I recall a post on a forum site, not here, about the lubricant used on the CD play mechanisms. I presume for the laser tracking system but I have not, yet, had to open up a CD player for any reason so I don't know what they are like. I probably copied that post but I can't find it. If you have your player open, and its the sort of thing you might contemplate, if cleaning the lens doesn't work, you might assess the lubrication on the tracking system.

I googled "Can I lubricate the transport mechanism in my CD transport org -co -com" and there are two sites with discussions. Also, it always comes to mind last, making a similar search in You Tube (always assessing the worth of the person offering the advice). With guidance from YTube, by detaching one internal wire connector in a flatscreen TV, I was able to keep a secondary TV in use, which otherwise would not have been worth the repair assessment/carriage charge......

Of course I'm only suggesting that this is done within one's comfort level and competence; also its of the greatest important that the unit is taken off the mains electrical supply when the cover is off.

Sorry if this is irrelevant or obvious to you - however, it might be useful to another reader.

[richardfinegold]

I agree with jlw and the others. The fact that they play fine in your cheaper CD player indicates the discs are not at fault. 12 years is a lot of time for a CDP, particularly if heavily used. The resale on your player is probably very low, so you have nothing to lose by trying to fix it yourself, but it's tricky and I suggest you start thinking about alternatives.

[jayne lee wilson]

Respect to all Sparrows, but I would keep away from abrasives myself - could easily do more irreparable harm. Washing in a weak Fairy Liquid solution or similar is fine, but there are proprietary cleaners around.... very gentle, like Russ Andrews' Reveel....I use this latter, but only occasionally on badly marked 2ndhand CDs (which would almost always play before cleaning , BTW)...all I usually do with a disc is brush off any excess dust before play.

But I think it highly unlikely the player is damaging the discs - that would be very unusual (I've never come across it, in years of running and dealing with, older or vintage CD transports and their servicing - its almost always a drawer/laser mech problem that results in poor playback), and I suspect the scratches aren't the problem here. So go for a lens clean first if you can...

[mikealdren]

The data on a CD is copied at different sides of the disk so theoretically a disk can play with a small hole drilled through the playing area. However, I've found that deep scratches do sometime cause problems. As Jayne says, circumferential scratches are the worst as they take out a complete ring of data and these could be caused by grit or damage to your player.

I only play my CDs to load them to my computer so, for badly damaged CDs I use Exact Audio Copy which is very good at retrieving data from damaged CDs, you can then copy it to a new CD (or, in my case, the computer files). On occasions when this fails, I have also had success by using abrasive car polishes to remove shallow scratches.

The only thing you can't fix at all is corrosion in the 'silver' layer but I've only had 2 or 3 of these in 3,500 disks.

[Bryn]

The data on a CD is copied at different sides of the disk so theoretically a disk can play with a small hole drilled through the playing area. However, I've found that deep scratches do sometime cause problems. As Jayne says, circumferential scratches are the worst as they take out a complete ring of data and these could be caused by grit or damage to your player.

I only play my CDs to load them to my computer so, for badly damaged CDs I use Exact Audio Copy which is very good at retrieving data from damaged CDs, you can then copy it to a new CD (or, in my case, the computer files). On occasions when this fails, I have also had success by using abrasive car polishes to remove shallow scratches.

The only thing you can't fix at all is corrosion in the 'silver' layer but I've only had 2 or 3 of these in 3,500 disks.

If by corrosion, you are referring to what is known as "bronzing" and the discs were manufactured by PDO, you might be able to get a replacement from the company whose label it is on.

[Dave2002]

The data on a CD is copied at different sides of the disk ...

I think that's not quite right. The data is based on error correcting codes which results in extra data stored - a significant proportion of which can be ignored or deleted, and is also distributed around the disk - which might be what you mean by at different sides of the disk. Sometimes I think it's considered redundant - but it's not if it's needed for the error correction algorithms to work. I'm not sure if its really that easy to test the notion that CDs can have a hole drilled through them. In my experience messing around with CDs tends to make them crack, then shatter. A hot pin or hot sharp point might work to get a hole, and then see if anyone's CD player can play that. Anyway, in practice playback of CDs is highly resilient, though different ways of doing this have been developed over the years. Some players I'm told buffer up large amounts of data - since memory is now relatively cheap, whereas earlier ones were more closely synchronised with the rotational speed of the CD linked to the playback.

Mostly small imperfections and scratches are do not produce any audible effect - though occasionally there is a more audible problem.

[LHC]

I remember years ago reading an article that suggested Vaseline, chap-stick, liquid car wax, neutral shoe polish, or furniture wax could be used to 'fill' shallow scratches on a CD's playing surface, and that this would make them playable again. Essentially a thin layer wax or other product was applied to the surface of the CD, allowed to dry and then the excess was buffed off. I've never tried this myself, so can't vouch for its effectiveness.

This would, of course, only provide a temporary solution, so it might be best to make a copy of the offending CD if the wax treatment works.

[Dave2002]

I remember years ago reading an article that suggested Vaseline, chap-stick, liquid car wax, neutral shoe polish, or furniture wax could be used to 'fill' shallow scratches on a CD's playing surface, and that this would make them playable again.

That’s a really bad idea. Firstly there’s no guarantee that it would work, and secondly putting such a disc into a player could contaminate it and require a thorough clean or repair of the player later.

If one wants to try to fix scratches, use slightly abrasive solutions or pastes, such as silvo or, brasso or toothpaste. After rubbing the liquids or pastes should be very thoroughly cleaned before any attempt is made to play the disc. Vim is not recommended, though I think I may have used it once on a CD which was difficult to fix. Definitely don’t use sand paper or Brillo pads!

Most slight scratches are cosmetic and should have no effect on playback. Anyone who doesn’t believe that the players are good could try writing on the playing surface of a CD with a soft felt marker pen. Use a soluble one first, or if the CD isn’t important even a permanent marker could be used. I’m not betting this, but I’d be surprised if it made any difference to whether the CD plays or not.

CDs are relatively cheap compared with the cost of a really good CD player. If a CD can be read in a computer drive, make a digital copy using a tool such as exact audio copy, and make a new CD-ROM from that.

[Cockney Sparrow]

liquid car wax, Essentially a thin layer wax or other product was applied to the surface of the CD, allowed to dry and then the excess was buffed off. I've never tried this myself, so can't vouch for its effectiveness.
This would, of course, only provide a temporary solution, so it might be best to make a copy of the offending CD if the wax treatment works.

I recalled a similar suggestion/recommendation in the mists of time, but I recalled a "paint coat scratch filler" product - anticipate it would dry to a solid - and for a significant identified scratch/pit. I hesitated to add that as I'd already said enough (I gather).

I do wonder when a very fine abrasive (perspex cleaner) becomes almost the same as a polish?

I don't disagree - my approach, where it would be worth it, would be in this order: general clean - make a file using EAC - consider (probably reject) applying audiophile mega £ solution to magic the CD into playing - when all else has conclusively failed - well make your decision you might want to polish it using the finest materials (art / antique restoration style?), buff it up - or scrap the CD.

How about appearing on the TV "Repair shop" - except, I suppose standing over a restored CD isn't quite as good TV as emoting over Gran/Dad's battered trunk, campaign desk etc etc

[mikealdren]

If by corrosion, you are referring to what is known as "bronzing" and the discs were manufactured by PDO, you might be able to get a replacement from the company whose label it is on.

Thanks Bryn, I didn't know that some companies will replace the disks. Sadly, the fist CD that spring to mind is on Pearl and, as far as I know, they no longer exist.

[Bryn]

Thanks Bryn, I didn't know that some companies will replace the disks. Sadly, the fist CD that spring to mind is on Pearl and, as far as I know, they no longer exist.

Not surprisingly, Hyperion appear to be the best at organising replacements of their 'bronzed' PDO manufactured CDs.