Misc. technical issues - streaming, dynamic range, etc.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes all recordings are artefacts . If there is a golden age of recording this is probably it right now in terms of technical matters - some modern recordings are astonishing in detail and clarity . I would put the golden age of singing on record approximately from the the prime of Caruso to the prime of Callas; piano maybe a bit later say Rachmaninov to Richter ; orchestras : that depends on taste but I just don’t think there is a conductor around today to match Furtwangler , Walter , Kleiber(s) ...I could go on and on..Klemperer, Abbado, Bernstein , Boulez, Guilini...

[jayne lee wilson]

But conductors today, male and female , are far more adventurous and innovative in their repertoire choices and the way they direct the orchestra. The style and character of their command and direction is different to a few decades back; but it's a net gain, I would say.
The figure of The Great Conductor is deeply mythological, hedged about with all kinds of assumptions of Art and Gender.

I'm always excited to see what Dausgaard, Lintu, Ticciati, Gardner, JEG, MG-T, YNS etc. are going to do next. All in their different ways relate to their orchestras very individually; they can also bring familiar music, music which had become a little too set in its interpretive manners or performance styles, to new and brilliant life.

[rauschwerk]

But conductors today, male and female , are far more adventurous and innovative in their repertoire choices and the way they direct the orchestra. The style and character of their command and direction is different to a few decades back; but it's a net gain, I would say.
The figure of The Great Conductor is deeply mythological, hedged about with all kinds of assumptions of Art and Gender.

I'm always excited to see what Dausgaard, Lintu, Ticciati, Gardner, JEG, MG-T, YNS etc. are going to do next. All in their different ways relate to their orchestras very individually; they can also bring familiar music, music which had become a little too set in its interpretive manners or performance styles, to new and brilliant life.

Couldn't agree more, Jayne. To take one example: is there a figure from the past who surpassed the achievements of John Eliot Gardiner in directing a huge range of music (from Monteverdi to Grainger), always with historical awareness and the kind of conviction that makes for excellent performances? I think we are living through a golden age - it just looks and feels different from past golden ages.

[Bryn]

Couldn't agree more, Jayne. To take one example: is there a figure from the past who surpassed the achievements of John Eliot Gardiner in directing a huge range of music (from Monteverdi to Grainger), always with historical awareness and the kind of conviction that makes for excellent performances? I think we are living through a golden age - it just looks and feels different from past golden ages.

We also have inspirational conductors such as Ilan Volkov who spread their sphere of activity wide, extending to small group improvisation and social/political activism, being as ar home in the world's concert halls as at Cafe OTO.

[Richard Barrett]

To take one example: is there a figure from the past who surpassed the achievements of John Eliot Gardiner in directing a huge range of music (from Monteverdi to Grainger), always with historical awareness and the kind of conviction that makes for excellent performances?

Or, to put it another way, there hasn't previously been a time when listeners are (at least potentially) aware of such an enormous range of music - most of which isn't really the preserve of conductors anyway. Having said that, the proportion of disposable trash to art that expresses the deepest and most sophisticated expression that human beings are capable of shows no sign of diminishing, quite the opposite probably!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Couldn't agree more, Jayne. To take one example: is there a figure from the past who surpassed the achievements of John Eliot Gardiner in directing a huge range of music (from Monteverdi to Grainger), always with historical awareness and the kind of conviction that makes for excellent performances? I think we are living through a golden age - it just looks and feels different from past golden ages.

I would agree with you about JEGs range I just don’t think he’s as good a conductor as Furtwangler. Conducting as we know it only really started with Wagner and the recorded legacy only starts in the 1900’s which was why I was careful not to use the phrase ‘golden age’ in relation to conducting; nor indeed was I the first to introduce this loaded phrase into this thread. I think it is reasonable to employ it in relation to singers and pianists but it’s pretty meaningless when used with orchestras or conducting.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I would agree with you about JEGs range I just don’t think he’s as good a conductor as Furtwangler. Conducting as we know it only really started with Wagner and the recorded legacy only starts in the 1900’s which was why I was careful not to use the phrase ‘golden age’ in relation to conducting; nor indeed was I the first to introduce this loaded phrase into this thread. I think it is reasonable to employ it in relation to singers and pianists but it’s pretty meaningless when used with orchestras or conducting.

I doubt whether anyone can supercede Furtwängler, but I do think JEG is up there with the best of them. He has his own ideas and doesn’t just jump on the fashionable bandwagon.

[Richard Barrett]

I would agree with you about JEGs range I just don’t think he’s as good a conductor as Furtwängler.

Although range could be said to be an important aspect of what a "good conductor" is, particularly in the sense of bringing out what is sonically distinctive about the music of different periods rather than imposing a one-size-fits-all approach to everything. There is also the fact that orchestral musicians play to a much higher standard now than they did in Furtwängler's time, and understand those sonic distinctions in a way that their predecessors simply had no idea of. I think this is one of the main reasons why conductors as such are a less dominant aspect of the musical landscape than they used to be, that is to say it's not that conductors aren't as "good", it's that instrumentalists are so much better.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I doubt whether anyone can supercede Furtwängler, but I do think JEG is up there with the best of them. He has his own ideas and doesn’t just jump on the fashionable bandwagon.

I would certainly listen more to JEG recordings than WF’s for all the technical and performance reasons we have collectively outlined ..I just think we’ve lost a bit of freedom in line and tempo that the latter seemed to conjure up. On Richard’s point I completely agree that orchestral standards in general ( particularly in the UK ) are higher than than 50,60 ,70 years ago but I suspect the BPO under Furtwangler would even now rate very highly. I’ve been going to ROH , LPO and Philharmonia concerts since the 70’s and people always look at me a bit askance when I say the orchestra is a lot better than it was . I am emphatically not a golden - ager - with two exceptions : the decline of the Spinto voice and the grand piano style..l

[Dave2002]

.... but I just don’t think there is a conductor around today to match Furtwangler , Walter , Kleiber(s) ...I could go on and on..Klemperer, Abbado, Bernstein , Boulez, Guilini...

I think you must be living too much in the past.

I used to like Walter a lot, but spurred on by comments around here I bought the latest big Walter box. This has made me wonder if in fact he had a very small (by modern standards) repertoire. I'm not suggesting he wasn't good, but I think many conductors these days may have a wider repertoire, and do at at least as well in most of them as earlier conductors. I also think that orchestral standards have generally improved immensely, though some orchestras were outstanding even 50 years ago - the LSO - for example. Bernstein did seem to have a more comprehensive selection of works in his bag.

http://www.bwdiscography.com/

Lastly - recording standards - these have often been variable. In the past there were some fairly poor recordings - often due to poor equipment and/or other factors, and sometimes just ignorance. However, I'm not convinced that modern recordings which are often heavily multi-miked, and in some cases have pitch and other adjustments "imposed" post production, are always better than some of the better recordings from previous eras. There are very likely still some pretty poor recordings being put out.

[gradus]

I think you must be living too much in the past.

I used to like Walter a lot, but spurred on by comments around here I bought the latest big Walter box. This has made me wonder if in fact he had a very small (by modern standards) repertoire. I'm not suggesting he wasn't good, but I think many conductors these days may have a wider repertoire, and do at at least as well in most of them as earlier conductors. I also think that orchestral standards have generally improved immensely, though some orchestras were outstanding even 50 years ago - the LSO - for example. Bernstein did seem to have a more comprehensive selection of works in his bag.

http://www.bwdiscography.com/

Lastly - recording standards - these have often been variable. In the past there were some fairly poor recordings - often due to poor equipment and/or other factors, and sometimes just ignorance. However, I'm not convinced that modern recordings which are often heavily multi-miked, and in some cases have pitch and other adjustments "imposed" post production, are always better than some of the better recordings from previous eras. There are very likely still some pretty poor recordings being put out.

Re recording standards I couldn't agree more but for me at least, the technical quality of older recordings has little bearing on my enjoyment of a performance, perhaps years of listening on AM radio helped!

[Bryn]

Thanks for reminding me that I was spending £30 pa more than I needed to! Now changed to annual subscription (equivalent to £12.49 pcm).




For anyone worried about buffering on Qobuz with the hi res files, the desktop player allows you to import the music you are streaming, in effect the same as a download. All you need to do is manage the size of your cache - mine is currently set to 30GB, but you can alter this depending on available space on your hard drive; more than enough space for even the most protracted of listening sessions!

Not a cache problem. I have just encountered another file which stalls. The first movement of the Oboe Concerto of the Strauss Concertos double album, which also has the Tuckwell/Kertesz Horn Concertos, grinds to a halt at 8'27" when using the QOBUZ app to stream it. This remains the case even after a complete shutdown and restart of the computer, following a clear-out with CCleaner. In this particular case, the grind to a halt is just before the music should fade to ambient. Most annoying. In othert cases it is far earlier in a 'track'.

[jayne lee wilson]

Bryn - Oboe Concerto plays fine in Qobuz/Audirvana+...

[Sir Velo]

Not a cache problem. I have just encountered another file which stalls. The first movement of the Oboe Concerto of the Strauss Concertos double album, which also has the Tuckwell/Kertesz Horn Concertos, grinds to a halt at 8'27" when using the QOBUZ app to stream it. This remains the case even after a complete shutdown and restart of the computer, following a clear-out with CCleaner. In this particular case, the grind to a halt is just before the music should fade to ambient. Most annoying. In othert cases it is far earlier in a 'track'.

That's 8'27" into a track which is 8'31" in length I think? There does seem to be an issue that tracks reaching the end of a section will come to a halt on occasions before they should "flip" into the next track. Have you tried importing the file and then playing it? I find that usually gets round blips like that. Remember, also, to use the app rather than the web player, which offers a distinctly second rate experience!

[Bryn]

That's 8'27" into a track which is 8'31" in length I think? There does seem to be an issue that tracks reaching the end of a section will come to a halt on occasions before they should "flip" into the next track. Have you tried importing the file and then playing it? I find that usually gets round blips like that. Remember, also, to use the app rather than the web player, which offers a distinctly second rate experience!

I always use the Qobuz app for Windows. However, I do not get your reference to "importing". Is this a QOBUZ feature or the use of an external programme such as Audfree you have in mind? If the former, please elucidate.