Getting Zoom to work ....

[Dave2002]

My guess is that many people have at least tried to participate in online meetings, for example using Zoom.
Actually presenting a meeting is a bit harder, and there are features which the host/presenter may need to know, such as how to set up screen sharing etc.

I will have to do this myself in a few weeks, so I thought I'd test it out a few days ago. Almost needless to say, I found that Apple/Catalina had thrown a spanner in the works. I don't know yet if I can work round this.

There may be other software systems which will work - such as Google Meet, MS Teams etc., but given that many participants already have some limited experience as viewers of Zoom, it seems unreasonable to suggest a change of online tool at this stage.

I'd really like to set up a system with high reliability, which probably means using an external camera and an external microphone, and then doing some quite thorough testing, but I'm not sure if I can all this in time (about 10 days). I have noticed that even some of the better presenters do occasionally have major problems with sound quality, or audio disappearing completely, and the video quality is also variable. I'd like to do at least as well or better, but it's more than likely I won't succeed.

If I really have to, in order to get this to work, I could buy a cheap Windows based PC. I don't suppose Zoom works with Linux.
I have Macs I can probably cajole to work with Zoom - since they are still on earlier versions of MacOS - or I could persevere and see if I can get any of this to work in Catalina.

I note also that it's only recently that big camera companies have noticed the need for software for the demand for streaming, with Nikon and Canon and Panasonic releasing software for use with their cameras and both Windows and MacOS. However, the Panasonic software may still be waiting for Apple to remove the roadblocks for use with Catalina.

I am interested to know if anyone else has had a decent stab at running meetings - with screen sharing (for use with presentation tools such as Powerpoint or Keynote), and maybe using external cameras and microphones.

I don't think anyone thought at the start of this year that they might seriously have to think about fitting out a room as a dedicated audio-visual studio, but that seems to be what some are now facing. Maybe podcasters have more experience of this.

[Anastasius]

1) I think you are over-complicating things. You are not Steven Spielberg and neither do the other participants think that you are.

2). They will see your image on a tiny part of their screen. So you don't need to do fret about your make-up. Your iMac camera is perfectly capable.

3) I use Zoom on Catalina. What's the problem ?

4) Keynote is fine

5) You're confusing podcasting with a Zoom session. They are two totally separate beasts.

[Dave2002]

OK - so you have it working with Catalina. Do you also manage to get screen sharing to work? You are right - I'm not Steven Spielberg.

However, I've seen enough Zoom meetings which have fallen apart, or almost fallen apart, to know that I don't want this to happen to me. It probably will anyway, but going into this attempt without preparation and a trial run through would be crassly stupid, IMHO. I have already done one test, and that didn't work out well, but indicated some problems, which I'm hoping to avoid and'/or correct.

It's possible that you have the latest version of Catalina, and that is more Zoom friendly. I'm still stuck on 10.15.5 and I have previously commented on the fact that Apple have manged to slip in yet another update for the OS - which seems to be essential for some of the updated version of their own software. Very bad planning IMO - but what do I know?

I can try to get the very latest version - but that will take a while, and then try Zoom again.

My fallback position will be to send a copy of the presentation file - or a link to it - to the participants, and then simply ask them to follow it through as I do the presentation. That would not be ideal, but it might be a better way if things are not looking good technically in practice run throughs ahead of time.

No - I am not confusing podcasting and Zoom. I know they are different, but from the source end some of the features - video and audio - are similar. One presenter of a Zoom meeting I saw yesterday managed to get through three different microphones, as some participants couldn't hear what he was saying. That may very well have been their problem, but he kept changing the audio in an attempt - not very satisfactory - to get audio working for everybody.

Also - my MacBook Pro camera is not very capable - my image always comes out very small in Zoom sessions. I assume other participants are mostly using Windows PCs, though I know that one has a PC with a separate camera which he bought specifically for this purpose. If I have to buy a web cam to make things work I have time to do so. If I have to use a DSLR with software to make things work - I might also have time for that. It is also clear that lighting can be improved - and very likely should be.

Just telling me to use the kit I have at present without testing, and adjusting how things are going to work out, is not a good idea.

However, a couple of things I have got from your response is that possibly Zoom will work with Catalina, and possibly also with Keynote. So at least that shows the possibility of feasibility and I can work on that.

Besides the faffing with the hardware and software I also have to produce the material for the talk - which I hope won't be too difficult, but experience does suggest that often a lot of the preliminary testing etc. will take so long that time for preparation will be cut short.

[Richard Barrett]

At the moment I'm using Zoom for an average of 3 hours per weekday, under OS 10.12.6 (Sierra). No major problems. As Anastasius says, it isn't going to be like watching a Hollywoord film, everyone understands that, one can rely on a basic level of patience and empathy because we are all learning day by day to cope with a difficult and unprecedented situation. Throwing together something that works, which can be used for a basic level of communication, is far preferable to wasting masses of time trying to get things perfect and then probably not succeeding anyway. Life is too short.

[Bryn]

Regarding screen sharing, I am advised that one crucial aspect is the order in which the content to be displayed, and the initiation of sharing, are brought into play. This, no matter what the operating sustem in play.

[Pulcinella]

Richard is right: something that works ok is fine.
Macs running Catalina at home here, with no problems.
My partner cobbled something together to enable 'blended' Quaker meetings (ok, there's not much talking ) with 'The Meeting House' (originally just him, now a few others who like being able to gather in person) being a participant and others staying at home. He bought a cheap microphone and uses that and his laptop on a table in the middle of the room. Adequate for those who feel the urge to 'minister' from the Meeting House.
But it sounds like you need something that's a bit more sophisticated than that.

[oddoneout]

As you would expect I can't help with the techie bit but I have experienced several Zooms as a user, as the volunteer coordinator at work has been using it for both social and 'business' purposes during our mutual exclusion from site. Regardless of any other considerations, however good your end is, the variations in the end-user set-ups will throw in spanners. I had and still have problems on the audio front. Initially the fact that I didn't have a microphone appeared to be too much for the Zoom software; I knew I wouldn't be able to contribute but as it turned out I wasn't even allowed to just listen, the constant messages telling me it couldn't detect a microphone blocked any further interaction. My son sent a headset which solved that issue but there is an ongoing one of not being able to make audio alterations(volume) while the meeting is underway as I get excluded, although if I wait it does usually get me back in again, but it doesn't help either me or the person running the meeting. Trial and error means that things work OK now for the most part for us, certainly the simple weekly social meetings. Recently a training session, with Powerpoint presentation, was delivered successfully after a few initial quickly resolved hiccups, and a way of doing conference call type meetings has evolved so that a formal team meeting could be held. First attempts several months ago to see if Zoom was feasible were tried out with a colleague but success there wasn't a guarantee of success with the 'real' participants. The coordinator is not by any means a techie person, and has had to do this without any help from the work IT department( I am not impressed by said department and am not convinced that even in 'normal' times sitting in their bunker with their proper toys they would have been of any help with such a patchwork of solutions that has been necessary. The default setting is the council intranet and everyone using Teams; too bad if you don't, as many staff and virtually all volunteers don't, have even a council login, let alone a council laptop. 'Can't help you then' ) just determination, trial and error. Oh and some things are beyond your control - we have had episodes of poor connection conditions freezing screens and causing other blips.
What might be useful prep is to find out who, of the intended participants, has used Zoom before and so has downloaded what ever is necessary and knows how to join the meeting, what volume settings they may need etc.With luck it will be all which should considerably reduce the likelihood of problems. Some of our volunteers have had fun experimenting and put up (sometimes distracting!) backgrounds rather than sharing their home environment - they are also the ones who have done better at making sure their face appears properly on screen, rather than left nostril, or top of head bobbing in and out of sight.

[richardfinegold]

My guess is that many people have at least tried to participate in online meetings, for example using Zoom.
Actually presenting a meeting is a bit harder, and there are features which the host/presenter may need to know, such as how to set up screen sharing etc.

I will have to do this myself in a few weeks, so I thought I'd test it out a few days ago. Almost needless to say, I found that Apple/Catalina had thrown a spanner in the works. I don't know yet if I can work round this.

There may be other software systems which will work - such as Google Meet, MS Teams etc., but given that many participants already have some limited experience as viewers of Zoom, it seems unreasonable to suggest a change of online tool at this stage.

I'd really like to set up a system with high reliability, which probably means using an external camera and an external microphone, and then doing some quite thorough testing, but I'm not sure if I can all this in time (about 10 days). I have noticed that even some of the better presenters do occasionally have major problems with sound quality, or audio disappearing completely, and the video quality is also variable. I'd like to do at least as well or better, but it's more than likely I won't succeed.

If I really have to, in order to get this to work, I could buy a cheap Windows based PC. I don't suppose Zoom works with Linux.
I have Macs I can probably cajole to work with Zoom - since they are still on earlier versions of MacOS - or I could persevere and see if I can get any of this to work in Catalina.

I note also that it's only recently that big camera companies have noticed the need for software for the demand for streaming, with Nikon and Canon and Panasonic releasing software for use with their cameras and both Windows and MacOS. However, the Panasonic software may still be waiting for Apple to remove the roadblocks for use with Catalina.

I am interested to know if anyone else has had a decent stab at running meetings - with screen sharing (for use with presentation tools such as Powerpoint or Keynote), and maybe using external cameras and microphones.

I don't think anyone thought at the start of this year that they might seriously have to think about fitting out a room as a dedicated audio-visual studio, but that seems to be what some are now facing. Maybe podcasters have more experience of this.

What kind of a phone do you use? Perhaps it will work better on your mobile OS

[Beresford]

Important to get everyone to sign in early, and (after a bit of general chat, hellos ,etc) to mute themselves, if you want to be heard. Then unmute at the end.

[Dave2002]

What kind of a phone do you use? Perhaps it will work better on your mobile OS

I doubt it. I’m actually not at all a fan of mobile phones, though we were very early adopters, and even had analogue ones in the past. Now that the digital ones can track one’s every movement and key press, I’m quite happy to have an old one and have it switched off most of the time. I do have a Samsung smartphone, and also an Apple i5, as well as a Sony Xperia. Mrs d has discovered that she can track my whereabouts in our new car using her phone - not only where it is, but which route it’s going and how fast etc. Hers is a more expensive Samsung Android model. Not good IMO - though I’m very probably not going to do anything to worry about.

I do need to show presentation software and I don’t think that would work well on a phone. I suspect that if I can get Zoom to work on High Sierra or El Capitan I can use one of my old iMacs to get the behaviour I feel is required.

That might be a better bet than trying to fix it with Catalina or fix Catalina, which for me, and I think many others, has been a right can of worms. In the longer term Apple may have been right to initiate some of their actions, but in the short term .... I could have lived quite happily for another few years without the inconveniences which emerged.

[Anastasius]

I'm on 10.15.7. I still have my old iMac (El C) sitting by the side of the shiny new one. I started a Zoom session on the new iMac (Catalina). I hit screen sharing and proceeded to play a Keynote presentation complete with embedded video - including sound. It all worked flawlessly on both Macs.

You touched on lighting and I'd agree with you there. Many people have their computers on a desk against the wall with the central room light behind them. Not ideal lighting. Try and see if you've got a couple of lamps that you can use as a key light and filler light on either side of your computer. IMO that will enhance your video easily.

If you want to try doing a Zoom session with me then you're very welcome to.

Beresford's tip is spot on.

[Dave2002]

I've booted up the "spare" iMacs. Snow Leopard shouldn't work - Zoom is not claimed to work for Macos below 10.7 - the last Snow Leopard was 10.6.8. I'll put the machine with that on one side for the moment.

Zoom is, however, claimed to work with versions above that. I'm typing this on a system based on El Capitan - 10.11.6 - so in theory it should work. Depending on which version of Apple's OS one is using, it may be necessary to override some of Apple's protections for downloads, and then subsequently to alter the sharing set ups. I've not tested this yet, but so far I have down loaded the Zoom version which works with a browser. I used Safari for that, as I'm not sure that it was going to work with Firefox.

In a short while I'll try to get a live test to establish connectivity, then if that works I'll see if I can get the screen sharing to work, show I can show presentations. Progress is being made.

[Dave2002]

In a short while I'll try to get a live test to establish connectivity, then if that works I'll see if I can get the screen sharing to work, show I can show presentations. Progress is being made.

Success!

Not quite sure how or why it worked, but I clicked on an invite in an email, and I guess the software to run in real time was already installed - presumably from my efforts this morning.
I was then given control of the screen and was able to load up Powerpoint, and Affinity Photo and both worked within the screen. The Powerpoint presentation also had links to Youtube videos - some of which worked, though there were then a few lip sync issues. I was also able to send messages using the Chat tool.

Now I'll have to work out whether I should do this as a host or as a participant. I think there are slight differences, and actually having full host control would probably be better, but if someone else acts as the base-line host, then control can be handed over to me as a participant. With a small number of participants it's probably not such a problem anyway.

More tests later on today, but it does now look as though things are going to work with this hardware (21.5 inch iMac - Late 2009) and software configuration (El Capitan).

J might have to tidy up the disc space a bit more though.

I wonder if I should set up the backgrounds - at the moment there's a lot of clutter due to the somewhat (!!) untidy room I'm sitting in - it's often used as effectively as a store room.

[Anastasius]

Glad you're making progress. I told you it was easy ;-)

[Dave2002]

Glad you're making progress. I told you it was easy ;-)

Thanks.

Still depends which systems you use. Also, if one really doesn't want to have people looking at all the junk in the room behind oneself, the feature to have Zoom put in a different background doesn't work on Core Duo machines - presumably not considered to have enough computer power.

Lighting is also an issue - but I knew it would be. It is probably quite easy to fix. I think the camera and general views with the iMacs are more suited to Zoom than some of the Apple laptops.
I would assess the sound quality as moderate - acceptable, though it could make sense to fit up an external microphone for better clarity.

I expect I'll test that as an option in the next week or so, before going live "for real".