Is a streamer with Qobuz worth it?

[jayne lee wilson]

It should reduce jitter, and reduce phase errors. Basically it should produce a bettter sound - but that would also depend on the equipment it was connected to. It might also reduce the error rates, and that could also have a beneficial effect.

Perhaps all you need to know is that some people think it improves the sound quality. If you can hear the difference it does, and if not, then ....

The placebo effect is a fascinating, even profound, part of the human constitution. If we understood it and could control it better, it could have far-reaching benefits.

All the same, my own experience of hifi tuning and upgrading has tended to be simply that some systems or components reveal subtle differences much more obviously than others; I think this is what leads to most of the scepticism really. The other day, I found that the LPS-1 power supply (see #26) had switched into standby mode, disabling the Regen, probably due to the mains surges that seem to have become more frequent with local home-working. (Next door is now an outpost of the Santander CallCentre Diaspora).

It wouldn't come back to life despite much off/on unplug/plug etc., so I isolated it and plugged it in elsewhere to wait and hope.
I thought it might need servicing or even replacing, tough call since the workshop is in California & there's no local distributor, and powering the Regen directly from the Meanwell, hoped I wouldn't hear too obvious a sonic difference.
But the loss of openness and clarity was unignorable. Happily the green light eventually came back on, the LPS was back in circuit, and beautiful music was restored....

There's a decades-old tradition of using separate power supplies to improve the sound of various components, its one of the more cost-effective things you can do. (So long as you can find somewhere to put the extra box...)

[Dave2002]

The placebo effect is a fascinating, even profound, part of the human constitution. If we understood it and could control it better, it could have far-reaching benefits.

If we could control the effect (??) - which seems an odd concept - then maybe a supplier of boxes with green lights could improve all our listening experiences!

The trouble with a lot of this stuff is that sometimes there are audible differences. Another problem is that we all have different hearing, and some of us hear better than others, and yet another factor is that none of us can really know what is going on in someone else's head, which means that one can't deny what someone else claims to hear or feel, even if we are ourselves sure we can't hear the subtleties in similar situations.

I do believe that some of the tweaks to hi-fi systems work - for example interconnect cables may make a significant perceived difference, but I'm more sceptical about some others, such as loudspeaker cables. They may make a difference, but to me it's not a night and day difference. Better power supplies can/could make a difference, but I'm very sceptical about "better" mains cables with no active components.

[Braunschlag]

It should reduce jitter, and reduce phase errors. Basically it should produce a bettter sound - but that would also depend on the equipment it was connected to. It might also reduce the error rates, and that could also have a beneficial effect.

Perhaps all you need to know is that some people think it improves the sound quality. If you can hear the difference it does, and if not, then ....

Ok, I get it now, thanks

[richardfinegold]

Usb is delivered in packets of digits, not as a continuously flowing stream. That is fine for a printer, not so good for music. USB reclockers take the packets and reclock it as a stream. Most DACs now do this internally, but anything made before 2014 or so may not. I had a DAC about 12 years ago that sounded great with SPDIF and awful with usb. The sound stage collapsed-the times and brass sounded as if they were sitting with the conductor turning the pages of the score for him. I had a cheap reclocker from Musical Fidelity that restored the soundstage depth but like most products from that company it gave up the ghost after a month or so.

[Dave2002]

Usb is delivered in packets of digits, not as a continuously flowing stream. That is fine for a printer, not so good for music. USB reclockers take the packets and reclock it as a stream. Most DACs now do this internally, but anything made before 2014 or so may not. I had a DAC about 12 years ago that sounded great with SPDIF and awful with usb. The sound stage collapsed-the times and brass sounded as if they were sitting with the conductor turning the pages of the score for him. I had a cheap reclocker from Musical Fidelity that restored the soundstage depth but like most products from that company it gave up the ghost after a month or so.

That's a very good explanation and shows what might happen if things go wrong.

[jayne lee wilson]

Usb is delivered in packets of digits, not as a continuously flowing stream. That is fine for a printer, not so good for music. USB reclockers take the packets and reclock it as a stream. Most DACs now do this internally, but anything made before 2014 or so may not. I had a DAC about 12 years ago that sounded great with SPDIF and awful with usb. The sound stage collapsed-the times and brass sounded as if they were sitting with the conductor turning the pages of the score for him. I had a cheap reclocker from Musical Fidelity that restored the soundstage depth but like most products from that company it gave up the ghost after a month or so.

Excellent exposition, but the Uptone Regen/LS1 (now the ISO Regen/LS1.2) do go further than that, with great attention given to noise and power supplies. For more details see the article on their site linked to upthread. Isolation of the various links in the power/signal chain has nearly always sounded beneficial to me too.
Inter alia, the Regen regenerates the 5v power bus coming through the usb cable from your computer. So a crucial point there is that you may hear a greater benefit if your DAC uses the 5v on its usb input. Some do some don't. I wrote to T&A to make sure before going ahead!

As for placebo and control... I read in New Scientitst that in some carefully-monitored trials, some patients felt a medical benefit even if they knew they were taking a sugar pill, rather than the drug............ we seem to have abilities that always seem just out of our rational sight...

But the Sun is out and I must get out too...!..... great day for the local errands....

[Keraulophone]

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I’m thinking of adding a network streamer to my mainly analogue hifi. Would it be wise to feed a stereo valve amplifier with something like the Cambridge CXN V2 or Auralic Altair G1, two boxes I’m considering? Advice I’ve seen recommends that all sources should be fed through the streamer to take advantage of its superior DAC. The CD, MD and universal Blu-ray players could feed it, but I can’t see how or why the turntable via phono amp or tape player should or could connect if analogue inputs are absent on the streamer.

The router is in another room next to the wall where the phone line enters, so a streamer’s wifi effectiveness is a major consideration, yet few reviewers mention this. Apparently, it’s better with the G1 than the CXN. If I went for a model with poor wifi implementation, I’d probably send the router’s signal to a Devolo unit plugged into the mains supply in the listening room.

The plan is to replace the lovely but venerable Quad FM tuner with internet radio (the loft FM aerial is playing up) and move from Spotify to Qobuz, as well as being able to play music from any computer on the home network.
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[Anastasius]

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I’m thinking of adding a network streamer to my mainly analogue hifi. Would it be wise to feed a stereo valve amplifier with something like the Cambridge CXN V2 or Auralic Altair G1, two boxes I’m considering? Advice I’ve seen recommends that all sources should be fed through the streamer to take advantage of its superior DAC. The CD, MD and universal Blu-ray players could feed it, but I can’t see how or why the turntable via phono amp or tape player should or could connect if analogue inputs are absent on the streamer.

The router is in another room next to the wall where the phone line enters, so a streamer’s wifi effectiveness is a major consideration, yet few reviewers mention this. Apparently, it’s better with the G1 than the CXN. If I went for a model with poor wifi implementation, I’d probably send the router’s signal to a Devolo unit plugged into the mains supply in the listening room.

The plan is to replace the lovely but venerable Quad FM tuner with internet radio (the loft FM aerial is playing up) and move from Spotify to Qobuz, as well as being able to play music from any computer on the home network.
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Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier simply to fix the aerial ?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Because of the effects noticed above only real way to test different hifi configurations I think is an a/b comparison using the same speaker and amp ( assuming you are comparing FM tuner with digital radio for example ) and some one else doing the switching while you are out of the room. They need to pay special attention to matching sound levels. The only real conclusion I came to recently was that streaming Qubuz through my iPad using one of those Apple 3.5mm to lightning DACs sounded better than doing the same on an iPhone and using the headphone socket on my MacBook was almost indistinguishable from the iPad. Still think Keraulophone will get a warmer , deeper sound from FM than any internet radio configuration.

[Bryn]

Because of the effects noticed above only real way to test different hifi configurations I think is an a/b comparison using the same speaker and amp ( assuming you are comparing FM tuner with digital radio for example ) and some one else doing the switching while you are out of the room. They need to pay special attention to matching sound levels. The only real conclusion I came to recently was that streaming Qubuz through my iPad using one of those Apple 3.5mm to lightning DACs sounded better than doing the same on an iPhone and using the headphone socket on my MacBook was almost indistinguishable from the iPad. Still think Keraulophone will get a warmer , deeper sound from FM than any internet radio configuration.

Though the BBC announce the cancellation of its previous plan for the termination of the use of FM for its national radio channels in 2018, that was not a permanent cancellation. The long-term aim is still to switch to digital radio for the national network. DAB is compromised by its data rates. Even the higher than average rate given to Radio 3 is inadequate to the task of carrying the content Radio 3's remit encompasses. That said, DAB has a number of audio advantages over FM. It offers a considerably wider dynamic range, for instance. However, when it comes to internet radio, the 320 kbps AAC-LC offered by BBC Sounds leaves FM wallowing in the shallows. No birdies the contend with. Way better dynamic range and none of the conversion losses inherent in current FM broadcasting. Bear in mind that prior to its transmission via FM, the processing of the audio content will have been carried digitally. This has been the case for decades. "Warmer", as a description of sound description, equates to "smooth" in relation to jazz, for me. While DAB might deserve expansion into Dead And Buried, FM is Functionally Moribund.

[richardfinegold]

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I’m thinking of adding a network streamer to my mainly analogue hifi. Would it be wise to feed a stereo valve amplifier with something like the Cambridge CXN V2 or Auralic Altair G1, two boxes I’m considering? Advice I’ve seen recommends that all sources should be fed through the streamer to take advantage of its superior DAC. The CD, MD and universal Blu-ray players could feed it, but I can’t see how or why the turntable via phono amp or tape player should or could connect if analogue inputs are absent on the streamer.

The router is in another room next to the wall where the phone line enters, so a streamer’s wifi effectiveness is a major consideration, yet few reviewers mention this. Apparently, it’s better with the G1 than the CXN. If I went for a model with poor wifi implementation, I’d probably send the router’s signal to a Devolo unit plugged into the mains supply in the listening room.

The plan is to replace the lovely but venerable Quad FM tuner with internet radio (the loft FM aerial is playing up) and move from Spotify to Qobuz, as well as being able to play music from any computer on the home network.
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DACs are for digital sources. Leave the analog sources out of there. DAC is short for digital to analog converter. The analog sources don’t need to be converted

[gradus]

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I’m thinking of adding a network streamer to my mainly analogue hifi. Would it be wise to feed a stereo valve amplifier with something like the Cambridge CXN V2 or Auralic Altair G1, two boxes I’m considering? Advice I’ve seen recommends that all sources should be fed through the streamer to take advantage of its superior DAC. The CD, MD and universal Blu-ray players could feed it, but I can’t see how or why the turntable via phono amp or tape player should or could connect if analogue inputs are absent on the streamer.

The router is in another room next to the wall where the phone line enters, so a streamer’s wifi effectiveness is a major consideration, yet few reviewers mention this. Apparently, it’s better with the G1 than the CXN. If I went for a model with poor wifi implementation, I’d probably send the router’s signal to a Devolo unit plugged into the mains supply in the listening room.

The plan is to replace the lovely but venerable Quad FM tuner with internet radio (the loft FM aerial is playing up) and move from Spotify to Qobuz, as well as being able to play music from any computer on the home network.
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For an inexpensive solution why not try an Audio Chromecast?
Though officially discontinued I think they are still available and paired with a phone/tablet work easily and to my ears at sound good into Quad amps and electrostatics.

EDIT: Sorry I'd forgotten that I'd already posted much the same up-thread

[Keraulophone]

DACs are for digital sources. Leave the analog sources out of there. DAC is short for digital to analog converter. The analog sources don’t need to be converted

Of course - how daft of me to think otherwise.

[Keraulophone]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier simply to fix the aerial ?

That’ll be my first task, but it still won’t receive Public Radio of Armenia.

[Keraulophone]

streaming Qubuz through my iPad using one of those Apple 3.5mm to lightning DACs

Thanks to your heroic suggestion, next I’ll try Qobuz through my trusty iPad pro and maybe a Chord mojo DAC that’s gathering dust.
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