Friends of Zoom

[Globaltruth]

Zoom make a portable digital audio recorder. This thread is for particular discussion about this equipment, ideally with tips, tricks, recommendations and warnings. There are at least 2 people on the forum who use this tech (I am one using an H5), maybe there are others, or maybe there are people considering doing so. Of course other portable digital audio recorders are available...

[Globaltruth]

Copied from WM thread....

No H8 here, and no plans to get one. I am a bit overloaded with Zoon devices, even after recently selling my trusty H4n to a friend. The H2n is a very handy device to carry with one most of the time. The H3-VR makes more than passable ambisonic recordings while being very portable (I strung mine up, inverted, above the performance space, using fishing line, for a performance of Tom Philips' IRMA last summer. I was very pleased with the mix-down to 5.1 surround. Where there is room to set such up, I also use a RØDE NT-SF1 with a Zoom F4. Unfortunately, that setup really needs an external power supply since the F4 eats batteries (8 AA 2,800 mAH NiMHs) in an hour or two. The H5 is a beaut. For 2 channel stereo recordings, I use one with a vertically coincident pair of large diaphragm condensers (AT4033a) with the upper one inverted over the lower one. When they were released, I made the error of purchasing a Tascam DR-100 Mk III on the basis of its claimed digital input option. Turned out it cut out altogether if the digital signal fell below -54 dB so useless for backing up digital transfer of 'classical' music with very quiet passages.

[Globaltruth]

I use 2 standard Zoom cpasules - XYh-5 cross over stereo mic and an SSh-6 shotgun. Also have a small tripod, hand made, from Ebay. works v well. Never tried hanging my zoom upside down...

Just looked at the AT4003a - brand new purchase price of around 400GBP puts me off a little....any view on a used one?

[Bryn]

I should stress that I was not intending to specifically promote the AT 4033a mics. I got them because the AKG mics I was seeking to buy to record some performances at Union Chapel, Islington, in 2000 were out of stock on the day of those performances. The AT 4033a mics were recommended as a close substitute and just happened to be on special offer at the time. I have been very happy with them but would recommend checking out comparative reviews if you are looking for large-diaphragm condensers.

Regarding Zoom recorders, if looking for used equipment, avoid early models such as the H2 and H4. Both have poor self-noise levels and other drawbacks. The H4n was a distinct improvement on the H4 but retained the 2GB files size limit of the earlier models. The very handy little H2n introduced the automatic seamless opening of a new recording file when the 2GB limit was reached. Later models have the same feature. One thing to bear in mind regarding those models, such as the H5 and H6 is that only the in-built XLR connectors offer phantom power. The optional add-on XLR modules do not provide phantom power.

[Dave2002]

I have a few of the cheaper end Zooms, including some which also do low end video. It was trying to get one of those to work for Zoom meetings (which is what I thought this thread might be about ) which "enticed" me to download a driver in the hope of getting it to work directly into my MacBook Pro which brought the whole machine down, and caused no end of bother during the last six months. The microphones work quite well.

Several models do MS recording and also surround sound and can be used to capture sounds outside, such as this cuckoo - https://soundcloud.com/user-977473438/cuckoo ** there were still cuckoos coming to Surrey, as I hadn't heard one for quite a number of years. I had very little time to get the microphone set up - just grabbed it and went out and switched on.

As I recall that recquired maximum gain during the recording, and further digital amplification afterwards. I have also used these to capture other outdoor sounds for use in some "ambient" tracks.

** I am puzzled as to why this track has gone quiet - it was working a few minutes ago.

[Bryn]

I have a few of the cheaper end Zooms, including some which also do low end video. It was trying to get one of those to work for Zoom meetings (which is what i thought this thread might be about ) which "enticed" me to download a driver in the hope of getting it to work directly into my MacBook Pro which brought the whole machine down, and caused no end of bother during the last six months. The microphones work quite well.

Several models do MS recording and also surround sound and can be used to capture sounds outside, such as this cuckoo - https://soundcloud.com/user-977473438 That was done to prove that there were still cuckoos coming to Surrey, as I hadn't heard one for quite a number of years.

As I recall that recquired maximum gain during the recording, and further digital amplification afterwards. I have also used these to capture other outdoor sounds for use in some "ambient" tracks.

I am not a Mac user but have quite successfully use the Q2n camera with a Windows 10 laptop for (the other) Zoom meetings. As to gain, I have found that I need to keep that of the H3-VR down to the lower end for most recordings, though not for the dawn chorus. Even there, though, I have not needed to opt for maximum gain.

[David-G]

Can I ask for recommendations, Zoom or otherwise, for a recorder to record piano or fortepiano in reasonably decent quality?

[Bryn]

Can I ask for recommendations, Zoom or otherwise, for a recorder to record piano or fortepiano in reasonably decent quality?

As you might expect, the quality of the microphone inserts on such instruments increased with the price. I would suggest the minimum of a Zoom H4n Pro, which is their lowest price option offering XLR inputs with phantom power option for external microphones in addition to the fairly decent integral mics. Up from there, the H5, H6 and H8 offer interchangeable microphone capsules. I prefer to place the microphones facing in towards the strings from a metre, of so, away, offering a stereo spread across the registers while providing some venue ambience and not too much intrusion from the mechanics of the piano, but that is just a personal preference.

[David-G]

Thanks Bryn! Sorry, I am new to all this - I am wondering what is an XLR input, and what is "phantom power"?

Does one get a much better result (generally speaking) with external microphones? Presumably this increases the cost a lot?

[Bryn]

Thanks Bryn! Sorry, I am new to all this - I am wondering what is an XLR input, and what is "phantom power"?

Does one get a much better result (generally speaking) with external microphones? Presumably this increases the cost a lot?

XLR is the balanced, well-screened connection system used widely by both professionals and amateurs. It offers higher-quality transfer of the signal than does the unbalanced jack method. Phantom power is the (low current) voltage required by most capacitor microphones. It is normally supplied at 48v but sometimes 24v is the potential difference called for. The upshot where the higher-priced Zoom recorders are concerned is that the ancillary option with two extra XLR sockets, which do not supply phantom power, is only usable with dynamic or electret microphones, rather than standard condenser types. I hope that helps clarify the situation.

[Dave2002]

XLR is the balanced, well-screened connection system used widely by both professionals and amateurs. It offers higher-quality transfer of the signal than does the unbalanced jack method. Phantom power is the (low current) voltage required by most capacitor microphones. It is normally supplied at 48v but sometimes 24v is the potential difference called for. The upshot where the higher-priced Zoom recorders are concerned is that the ancillary option with two extra XLR sockets, which do not supply phantom power, is only usable with dynamic or electret microphones, rather than standard condenser types. I hope that helps clarify the situation.

Re condenser microphones, there are now some microphones with some form of inbuilt power supply, which can work off USB. Essentially they send digital data back to computers and recording sofware. Given that much recording is done digitally nowadays this is a reasonable approach, though some people would prefer to have a completely analogue microphone, feeding an analogue signal into an ADC of their choice. XLR and good screened cable would be better for keeping analogue signals "cleaner" and less distorted than some other cables, and it can manage quite long cable runs, which I assume is why it is used in studios. OTOH digital approaches to communications remove some of the problems of analogue cabling, and replace them with other ones, such as jitter and clock synchronisation. For digital recording it is generally better to have the ADC close to the source to minimise cable runs with the possibility of interference, noise and other distortions.This is one reason why some microphones now have the ADC built in to the housing, together with other digital communications circuits, though sound quality might then be limited by the ADC used.

Studio practice may be rather different from what some amateurs would do with recording equipment, though how different may depend on the equipment and the people using it. I don't know enough about the general media and recording industry - whether it's very conservative and sticks with kit and procedures it knows, or whether it's pushing the boundaries and always looking for the best kit and methods, either digital or analogue. In a large scale media industry it may be more important to have a lot of standard equipment which is easily interchangeable and can be used by most recording engineers and technicians, rather than some odd items which are arguably better, but require special interfaces and specialised knowledge.

[Bryn]

Re condenser microphones, there are now some microphones with some form of inbuilt power supply, which can work off USB. Essentially they send digital data back to computers and recording sofware. Given that much recording is done digitally nowadays this is a reasonable approach, though some people would prefer to have a completely analogue microphone, feeding an analogue signal into an ADC of their choice. XLR and good screened cable would be better for keeping analogue signals "cleaner" and less distorted than some other cables, and it can manage quite long cable runs, which I assume is why it is used in studios. OTOH digital approaches to communications remove some of the problems of analogue cabling, and replace them with other ones, such as jitter and clock synchronisation. For digital recording it is generally better to have the ADC close to the source to minimise cable runs with the possibility of interference, noise and other distortions.This is one reason why some microphones now have the ADC built in to the housing, together with other digital communications circuits, though sound quality might then be limited by the ADC used.

Studio practice may be rather different from what some amateurs would do with recording equipment, though how different may depend on the equipment and the people using it. I don't know enough about the general media and recording industry - whether it's very conservative and sticks with kit and procedures it knows, or whether it's pushing the boundaries and always looking for the best kit and methods, either digital or analogue. In a large scale media industry it may be more important to have a lot of standard equipment which is easily interchangeable and can be used by most recording engineers and technicians, rather than some odd items which are arguably better, but require special interfaces and specialised knowledge.

Do bear in mind that this thread is about pocket Zoom type recorders.

[Dave2002]

Do bear in mind that this thread is about pocket Zoom type recorders.

Indeed. I was trying to elaborate on the need - or otherwise - for XLR connections. These would only be needed on Zoom recorders if external microphones of certain types were to be used, though I think I've mostly seen these used with the inbuilt microphones. There are some Zoom recorders which use more lowly connectors, and I guess some people might use a model with digital inputs and an external audio interface. I think most people record directly into computers these days, either with a digital USB microphone, or via an audio interface which may use condenser mics with XLR connectors. I'll let you elaborate further, if you want to, or if I've made too many errors.

Also, even though some of the Zoom models are fairly small, I think some would require rather large pockets. I didn't think the thread was restricted to the ones which might go into pockets. The stands generally wouldn't, anyway.

[Bryn]

Indeed. I was trying to elaborate on the need - or otherwise - for XLR connections. These would only be needed on Zoom recorders if external microphones of certain types were to be used, though I think I've mostly seen these used with the inbuilt microphones. There are some Zoom recorders which use more lowly connectors, and I guess some people might use a model with digital inputs and an external audio interface. I think most people record directly into computers these days, either with a digital USB microphone, or via an audio interface which may use condenser mics with XLR connectors. I'll let you elaborate further, if you want to, or if I've made too many errors.

Also, even though some of the Zoom models are fairly small, I think some would require rather large pockets. I didn't think the thread was restricted to the ones which might go into pockets.

Fair enough. I would only add that I think all XLR sockets on Zoom Handy Recorders are 'combis' and also take 6.5mm jacks, whether wired for balanced or unbalanced feed. Oh, and even the Zoom H8 would just about fit in the 'poacher's pockets' of some of my jackets. The largest I have is the H6 and that has no trouble fitting in the most jacket pockets, in its case, though it does bulge the pocket, somewhat.

[David-G]

Bryn, when you said that H5, H6 and H8 offer interchangeable microphone capsules, do you mean that the microphones built into the Zoom can be replaced by others? Presumably, the idea would be that these other microphones would be of higher quality? Or would there be some other reason for changing the microphones?