Apple Catalina - it gets worse!

[Dave2002]

I can barely believe how awful Catalina is now turning out to be. Someone suggested that I rewind back to a previous version, but that would be difficult, and would probably postpone the inevitable anyway.

However, noticing that some of my applications are now supposed to be in need of update, to Catalina macOS 10.15.6 I thought that despite the previous unpleasant experiences of installing the earlier version of Catalina, that I'd have a go.

The very first thing to notice is that Apple have changed the Software Update in Preferences, so that only does application updates. Catalina doesn't appear "obviously" in the App store, but if a search for Catalina is made there, the update to 10.15.6 shows up - so they even make it hard to find the updates/upgrade which they seem to want fo foist on users.

OK - one finds where the software is on the App store. The next thing is to make sure there's enough space to do the install. Well - actually no. Apple estimated about 13 Gbytes, so I moved files and deleted or copied ones off my 250 Gbyte laptop to make this feasible. Eventually the download worked, so then I thought that maybe the install would go OK.

"You have to be joking ...."

At this point I intercepted the install process, and captured the install file - or maybe it just stalled anyway.
Now running the install to put the OS on the main storage SSD there is a notification that an additional 14.16 Gbytes is required. Thus nearly 30 Gbytes of spare space is apparently required in order to get the updated OS installed, so that then the updated software might also be installed.

Haven't Apple heard about methods of updating which do not require such large amounts of spare space? Various forms of paged storage - even for backing store? Such an approach would minimise the space requirements, at the expense of some speed, but would be vastly preferable. It could be done. Even older methods such as system patches....

OK - they don't care - they probably think I'm going to rush out an buy a new 1 TByte laptop to replace my otherwise perfectly good one which has a mere 250 Gbytes of storage. I would do that, but not at the huge prices which Apple charge. Oh - that was the company which made it either impossible or very difficult for me to add in new SSD storage when I bought the machine? At the time I bought the most I thought I needed or could afford.

I would have been prepared to buy extra SSD memory as an after market upgrade if Apple hadn't decided to try to stop me.

I'm not sure that returning to Windows and PCs would be a "solution" for me, but this is really shoddy.

I suspect that I'm going to have to buy one or two very large SSDs (say 1Tbyte or more) and install Catalina on those, and then boot the laptop from those.

The sad thing is that I do like some of the software that Apple produce, and even the OS when it works well, but Catalina and the migration path from earlier OS versions seems to me - and also many others if one looks at what's been written about it - to have been a complete disaster.

[french frank]

I'm not going there.

[Dave2002]

I'm not going there.

Most people I know aren’t either. One “upgraded” accidentally, and instantly regretted it and reverted back to the previous version, though that took a day or two. I was hoping I could work through this and come out on top, but I’ve not succeeded yet. Most of my friends and former colleagues have held off attempting this.

I do wish I could view this more optimistically, but it’s really very poor.

A major reason why I switched from Windows to Apple was that I didn’t have to spend hours each day trying to keep the systems going. Fifteen or so years on I don’t even seem to be able to get any of the software I want to use to work without major hassles, even though earlier versions were almost as good, and were working well enough in earlier incarnations with earlier versions of MacOS.

[Beresford]

I am reminded of Mr GG's comment that most of the music professionals he knows recommend getting the PC, Apple machine I think, to do what you want,and then not updating anything unless you have to. Also to do a bootable backup (on your old HDD?) in case of hardware failure or fruitless and regret filled updates.

[Pulcinella]

I'm on Catalina 10.15.6 and (touch wood) haven't had any problems so far.

Something went awry with my iCloud mail a couple of weeks ago, but that was in general (on all devices) so not Catalina related; the Apple staff were excellent and sorted it all out very quickly, giving me a case number to use in the event of a recurrence (which there hasn't been).
I have had an alert that a future OS update might be incompatible with my Intego virus package, but I assume that Intego will be working on that.

[Lordgeous]

Ive never felt the need to upgrade unless things stop working properly. I'm still on Sierra (as are the majority of my colleagues) and quite happy thankyou - until the dreaded upgrade time is forced on me!

[Dave2002]

Ive never felt the need to upgrade unless things stop working properly. I'm still on Sierra (as are the majority of my colleagues) and quite happy thankyou - until the dreaded upgrade time is forced on me!

I thnk High Sierra is benign - I have it running, and you should be able to get to that - but Apple may make it difficult to find the install/upgrade files. Similarly I suspect that Mojave is OK - though I've not tried that.

I have a cunning plan for getting install files for some machines. We have a Macbook Air which is old enough that it won't upgrade to Catalina, or maybe even Mojave, so my plan is to get it to upgrade to the latest version which it can manage, then copy the install file. That might also work with one of my earliest iMacs - currently still on Snow Leopard!

Anyone with a new machine may find Catalina OK - and will perhaps have new software to go with it. Problems defiinitely arise with older versions of MS Office - which Catalina effectively trashes. I still prefer Excel to Numbers so I would like a version of that, but I really don't like being bumped into having to buy a new version, or go onto a subscription because of this.

Open Office is pretty good for some things, but it's Excel which I find preferable to the possible alternative offerings. Powerpoint is also better for Powerpoint files, though native Keynote presentations can be very good indeed and probably better than Powerpoint.

Some virtual instruments which work in Logic on earlier versions of MacOS may not work in Catalina, for various reasons. I'm not sure about video files for tools such as Final Cut Pro or iMovie. It wouldn't surprise me if the libraries become incompatible.

[Lordgeous]

Sounds like a nightmare Dave! Goodluck.

[hmvman]

I thnk High Sierra is benign - I have it running, and you should be able to get to that - but Apple may make it difficult to find the install/upgrade files. Similarly I suspect that Mojave is OK - though I've not tried that.

I have a cunning plan for getting install files for some machines. We have a Macbook Air which is old enough that it won't upgrade to Catalina, or maybe even Mojave, so my plan is to get it to upgrade to the latest version which it can manage, then copy the install file. That might also work with one of my earliest iMacs - currently still on Snow Leopard!

Anyone with a new machine may find Catalina OK - and will perhaps have new software to go with it. Problems defiinitely arise with older versions of MS Office - which Catalina effectively trashes. I still prefer Excel to Numbers so I would like a version of that, but I really don't like being bumped into having to buy a new version, or go onto a subscription because of this.

Open Office is pretty good for some things, but it's Excel which I find preferable to the possible alternative offerings. Powerpoint is also better for Powerpoint files, though native Keynote presentations can be very good indeed and probably better than Powerpoint.

Some virtual instruments which work in Logic on earlier versions of MacOS may not work in Catalina, for various reasons. I'm not sure about video files for tools such as Final Cut Pro or iMovie. It wouldn't surprise me if the libraries become incompatible.

I've just got a new iMac running Catalina and it seems fine so far. Final Cut Pro X libraries that I've needed have updated and run ok. I've lost my old MS Office so I've installed Pages, Numbers and Keynote which I think will be ok for what I do. I've also lost Photoshop and as I don't want to pay Adobe's subscription I will get Serif Affinity Photo instead which is a one-off purchase.

I also upgraded my 2012 MacBook Pro which was just new enough to install Catalina. That's been running ok but I did have a SSD hard drive and extra RAM installed which has made it run faster.

Good luck with all of your issues, Dave.

[Dave2002]

I've just got a new iMac running Catalina and it seems fine so far. Final Cut Pro X libraries that I've needed have updated and run ok. I've lost my old MS Office so I've installed Pages, Numbers and Keynote which I think will be ok for what I do. I've also lost Photoshop and as I don't want to pay Adobe's subscription I will get Serif Affinity Photo instead which is a one-off purchase.

I also upgraded my 2012 MacBook Pro which was just new enough to install Catalina. That's been running ok but I did have a SSD hard drive and extra RAM installed which has made it run faster.

Just noticed the additional collateral damage - presumably I lost Photoshop and Premiere Elements. That's really somewhat of a bummer, as I used Photoshop with Nik sometimes, and it was very useful. However, I do find Affinity Photo good enough, so I actually tend to use that in preference to Photoshop Elements.

Re Affinity Photo - that should be fine, and there is also a Designer program, which I decided was worth having, though if you're only interested in photos it is perhaps not really necessary. The designer program is quite useful for making up pages which include photos - using the Place operation. You can probably also do that with Photo, but sometimes the designer program is more convenient.

So basically I've lost access to about £100s worth of software which I found useful, and I don't want to be forced to buy it again, or be bumped into a subscription. I think this was really shoddy of Apple.

However, perhaps worse than that is the time I've wasted trying to get things fixed. You'll note that I'm using the machine in question to post this - so it does work - but it's very restricted in the things I wanted to do, which I was able to do before I embarked on this "upgrade". Maybe I really will try to revert back - or find some other way to restore the kind of useful functionality I had before.

i might even commit a grave sin and buy a PC laptop - if I can find one which is not too expensive and with sufficient capacity and software software for my needs.

[hmvman]

I feel your pain, Dave. I went through this a couple of years ago when I updated to High Sierra from Mountain Lion - a big jump! The 'free' update cost me around £600 in replaced photo and video editing applications.

I'm interested that you find Affinity Photo to be fine. I haven't tried it yet but having looked at some tutorials on YouTube it seems to be a very capable app. I usually use Capture One Pro for most of my photography work but I do sometimes need the layering capabilities of Photoshop which I hope Affinity will cover. I'm not sure I'd use the Designer app but it's worth knowing about, thanks.

[Dave2002]

I'm interested that you find Affinity Photo to be fine. I haven't tried it yet but having looked at some tutorials on YouTube it seems to be a very capable app. I usually use Capture One Pro for most of my photography work but I do sometimes need the layering capabilities of Photoshop which I hope Affinity will cover. I'm not sure I'd use the Designer app but it's worth knowing about, thanks.

There are many Youtube (and a few Vimeo) tutorials about the Affinity software. They are rather good, and the software does work quite well too. I suppose there may be things which Photoshop does as well or better - but then you probably do have to pay for the "privilege". I think seriously professional photographers who use such software to make a living might find it is worth paying, but lesser mortals may find that Affinity does most of what's required most of the time. Where I would expect Photoshop to do better is in creating very detailed masks - for example of a cat including whiskers and hair standing on end. Afinity certainly does layers, and has many adjustment features.

The Nik tools also work well with Photoshop, though I think they can be made to work with Affinity, but I haven't found out how to do that yet.

[Anastasius]

What I find intriguing is that we now have two new iMacs...both on 10.15.6 - ostensibly. My wife's gets an invite to get 10.15.7. I don't. Etrecheck Pro flags up a load of stuff on hers that needs attention but not on mine.

Meanwhile iCloud and Photos continues to perplex and defeat me as to its idiosyncrasies.

[DoctorT]

I bought a new iMac a few months ago when my PC packed up, only to find that it refused to work my Dell printer: it seems that Dell no longer supply drivers for Apple devices. I bought a new Canon printer which worked well... until Catalina upgraded. I emailed Canon who informed me that this is a common problem and helpfully sent me links to new drivers which work fine. Catalina is now offering me a new upgrade. Don’t think I’ll bother.

[Anastasius]

I bought a new iMac a few months ago when my PC packed up, only to find that it refused to work my Dell printer: it seems that Dell no longer supply drivers for Apple devices. I bought a new Canon printer which worked well... until Catalina upgraded. I emailed Canon who informed me that this is a common problem and helpfully sent me links to new drivers which work fine. Catalina is now offering me a new upgrade. Don’t think I’ll bother.

But at least you get the choice whether to upgrade or not. If you go to the HP website, there is a whole section on the home page (!) devoted to Windows issues.