Mobile phones - audio

[johnb]

The recent thread "Bose headphones connectivity - help requested" has got me thinking about using smartphones, on occasion, to listen to music but the more I look into it the more complicated the whole issue seems.

Of course, it all depends on what one's expectations are.

There are two means of listening with headphones:

- pluging the headphones into the phone
However, most phones no longer have a 3.5mm socket. Also the sound quality will depend on the DAC, etc built into the phone. Additionally it is likely that any music will be resampled to 48kHz within the phone.

- using bluetooth headphones
There are a whole host of codecs for bluetooth, from the most basic SBC, to AAC, aptX, aptX LL, aptX HD, aptX Adaptive and LDAC, etc. All involve compression and all (I think) are lossy. So if you are listening to a lossless FLAC file the data will be converted to a lossy format, transmitted to the headphones which will then decode it and pass it through the DAC which is built into the headphones. (A bit like taking a FLAC file, converting it to mp3 and then decoding the mp3.) Of course, both the phone and headphones have to support a codec before it can be used.

Admittedly some of the codecs, such as aptX HD, are supposed to be very good and I probably wouldn't hear the difference anyway.

So how about getting a phone that has a headphone socket and incorporates a super-duper DAC? Well it seems that most music players will totally ignore the super-duper DAC and use the basic Android API system, so you have to only use certain players to get the benefit.

etc
etc

[Dave2002]

Seems a fair assessment of the issues re mobile phones. Doesn't help much in trying to find an "acceptable" one, though - if there are no obsolute standards of technology which can be relied upon. A similar situation arises regarding cameras. Phones are good "for what they are", but no way do the cameras in a phone compare with either a mirrorless camera with a very good lens, or a modern DSLR. I think the same must be true for audio - comparing them with a high quality amp/DAC/speaker combination.

Probably not much good relying on reviews either, as many will be written to pander to the technophiles who value gadgetry, innovation, convenience over really high quality, and I have a suspicion that many of the experts who write such reviews haven't a clue about music of any sort, and the sound quality which is achievable with a good reproduction system.

[antongould]

Every morning I set off on my walk listening to downloaded Skellers on my iPhone with wireless broadband headphones ... I find the sound quality perfectly acceptable for walking to. As a tangential issue every morning without fail the playback stops after about 17 minutes and after about 25 strides starts again at where it stopped. I carry on walking for more than 17 minutes without further interruptions ..... ?????

[AmpH]

I use the external DAC / Headamp option in the form of an Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt with the supplied ' Dragontail ' USB A - C cable to the USB C output on my smartphone. I also sometimes use this to listen from my laptop. This also allows me to use / drive a variety of good quality headphones - in my case Philips, Meze and Beyer amongst others. I find the results from this arrangement to be excellent.

[cmr_for3]

This subject can be a total rabbit whole - I have gone down it.

I listen to music while reading with my phone (Android) and closed back wired headphones.

I started off with the original Cyrus Soundkey https://www.richersounds.com/cyrus-s...-graphite.html

Which worked well on my phone at the time (Moto G7 Power) and gave increased volume at least, if not better sound (I do think it was a touch better).

However on my Moto G8 Power the Soundkey produces a hum that other dacs do not.

I also own one of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

and one of these https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32897632139.html

which are in fact the same product with flashable firmware that can disable the mic and use for call options to focus on music.

Mixed opinions on these:

Good: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hidi...ac-amp.880478/

Bad: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...p-dongle.8707/

I also have the apple usb c to 3.55 mm adapter which is very highly rated for the price but has issues on Android phones with the max volume level so I can't recommend it for Johnb's needs. I do however use it now as my desktop PC headphone dac/amp and there it performs very well.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/apple-usb-c-to-3-5-mm-headphone-jack-adapter.23420/reviews

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-apple-vs-google-usb-c-headphone-adapters.5541/

The real bargain however in terms of bang for buck seems to be the Tempotec Sonata HD pro (which I have just ordered for use as DAC to connect my amp and speakers to my PC, currently using a Fiio E10k so will be interesting to compare)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000628268773.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.17.3bf132a6Vlfkf9

I also have some other interesting cheapies for work that I won't post here or this will become a ramble.

I am in no way an expert and the Audio Science Review does seem controversial (I am not knowledgeable enough to make a judgement on all the graphs!)

This is just my two pence worth of knowledge gained. Reddit can also be a useful source of info.

[richardfinegold]

A new one to me. What on earth are downloaded Skellers?

I am glad you asked. I thought my ignorance on this particular subject was due to being a Continental.

[Cockney Sparrow]

A new one to me. What on earth are downloaded Skellers?

Taking that at face value (and not wishing to discourage anyone from asking such a question here) - Ian Skelly, fondly regarded in these parts - Radio 3 presenter with a gentle line in conveying a light disdain for the constantly "outreaching" Radio 3 initiatives and "personality" style of latter years.

Its the acronmyms and inner "in words" which quite often stump me.

[richardfinegold]

I think between amp and cmr, the OP has been given a pretty good range of responses. They both know more about the subject, from experience, than I do, but I will make a few general comments.
Regarding SQ, phones haven’t been to well regarded. This led me to try two different high end portable but I found both to be unsatisfactory although they sound much better. The first was an Onkyo, and the problem was the Android interface. I use an Android phone so this shouldn’t have been a big deal but this Onkyo is so busy and complicated , automatically updating by adding new apps that are unwanted and frequently interfere with the actual music playing of the device. I then tried a Sony, which worked fine until the camera card storage needed to be extracted. The reviews had warned that this was a problem, as the entire Sony device is the size of a matchbox and there is no eject button. I simply couldn’t extract it, even when using a small forceps that an Opthomologist friend lent me. Sony Customer support was non existent, and finally the dealer gave me partial credit for it.
Even before I gave up on these two portable players, when I used them I found that having to carry around a portable phone and a portable music player was a PITA. Ditto for a separate headphone amp. Stereophile magazine then placed my current LG phone on it’s cover, assigned the review to their snootiest reviewer which was a thumbs up. My wife’s iPhone 4 was dying so I turned my iPhone 6 over to her and bought theLG VQ40. It plays files up to 96 kHz, has a socket to attach to conventional phones, and as mentioned the Android interface does not induce psychosis. It also has amazing video quality. The SD cards (there are slots for two) are easily ejected and reinstalled.
With my Sony phones, I’ve decided that Bluetooth is of sufficiently high quality that I no longer suffer from Audiophilia Nervosa about wired vs wireless, and prefer not to be tethered to the phone.
I think that it was wrong of Apple to eliminate the headphone socket, although I guess there is a workaround. The bigger problem with iPhones is the inability to add extra storage as SD cards.

[cmr_for3]

I think between amp and cmr, the OP has been given a pretty good range of responses. They both know more about the subject, from experience, than I do, but I will make a few general comments.
Regarding SQ, phones haven’t been to well regarded. This led me to try two different high end portable but I found both to be unsatisfactory although they sound much better. The first was an Onkyo, and the problem was the Android interface. I use an Android phone so this shouldn’t have been a big deal but this Onkyo is so busy and complicated , automatically updating by adding new apps that are unwanted and frequently interfere with the actual music playing of the device. I then tried a Sony, which worked fine until the camera card storage needed to be extracted. The reviews had warned that this was a problem, as the entire Sony device is the size of a matchbox and there is no eject button. I simply couldn’t extract it, even when using a small forceps that an Opthomologist friend lent me. Sony Customer support was non existent, and finally the dealer gave me partial credit for it.
Even before I gave up on these two portable players, when I used them I found that having to carry around a portable phone and a portable music player was a PITA. Ditto for a separate headphone amp. Stereophile magazine then placed my current LG phone on it’s cover, assigned the review to their snootiest reviewer which was a thumbs up. My wife’s iPhone 4 was dying so I turned my iPhone 6 over to her and bought theLG VQ40. It plays files up to 96 kHz, has a socket to attach to conventional phones, and as mentioned the Android interface does not induce psychosis. It also has amazing video quality. The SD cards (there are slots for two) are easily ejected and reinstalled.
With my Sony phones, I’ve decided that Bluetooth is of sufficiently high quality that I no longer suffer from Audiophilia Nervosa about wired vs wireless, and prefer not to be tethered to the phone.
I think that it was wrong of Apple to eliminate the headphone socket, although I guess there is a workaround. The bigger problem with iPhones is the inability to add extra storage as SD cards.

I've heard good things about the LG phones audio wise.

With your model can you buy larger batteries? I know of one model that accepts 10,000 mah battery unit.

That would be fabulous as an "offline" music player. Like you I've decided against a separate player but for holidays I would like a spare device and a break from the phone. Modified a Redmi Note 6 for my last cruise which served me well but the battery life seems to have tumbled after an update and change of OS.

Guess I could revert back.

[antongould]

Taking that at face value (and not wishing to discourage anyone from asking such a question here) - Ian Skelly, fondly regarded in these parts - Radio 3 presenter with a gentle line in conveying a light disdain for the constantly "outreaching" Radio 3 initiatives and "personality" style of latter years.

Its the acronmyms and inner "in words" which quite often stump me.

My apologies to all - please forgive a pathetic old man trying to be cool .... I shall attempt to follow the style guide in future ....

[Nick Armstrong]

As a tangential issue every morning without fail the playback stops after about 17 minutes and after about 25 strides starts again at where it stopped. I carry on walking for more than 17 minutes without further interruptions ..... ?????

Very glad you mentioned that, anton. It tends to be downloaded Jazz Record Requests for my bicycle contitutionals, but lately the same thing happens to me: pauses at around the same place each time. I didn’t know it re-started itself, as I always stop and restart it manually. I assumed it must be a failing in my phone but your post reassured me.

Most odd. Anyone any clue why?

[johnb]

Thanks for all the helpful contributions.

I've been thinking about the audio side of smartphones because my existing phone (the 1st generation Moto G) is 6 years old, of limited capacity, and I've decided it's about time I replaced the thing.

Most of my listening to music, whether ripped CDs, downloads, BBC iPlayer, Qobuz or Spotify, is via the Squeezebox/LMS system which, miraculously, is still going strong (and supported) 8 years after Logitech abandoned it. As part of that system I can use a mobile phone as a Squeezebox player - enabling me to access all my music where ever I am in the house, as long as I am within WiFi range.

As I have two very decent headphones - the Sony WH-1000XM3 Noise Cancelling (wired/Bluetooth) and a pair of Sennheiser HD600 (wired) - I thought I might as well get a phone that is reasonably good in the audio department.

After an awful lot of dithering I've ordered a LG V50, partly just to get the matter sorted. I feel a bit embarrassed about the purchase and fear that I might live to regret it because (a) it's too damned big, (b) it costs far more than I would normally think of spending on a phone, (c) it's last years model (so what?) and to cap it all off (c) I ordered it from a European supplier so it might never arrive anyway.

[Dave2002]

I am watching this with some slight interest. I'm not a great fan of mobile phones, and I think they considerably undermine one's privacy, but on the other hand they do have some uses. As many new cars seem to have features which really require a mobile phone in order to operate, I think I will have to get a new somewhat more advanced phone than I have at present. I still have a pre-smartphone phone - which I use "when I have to", and a Sony smartphone which just about works, but has so little memory that for many things it's useless, and lastly an iPhone 5 bought second hand for use as a camera. I'm guessing that if a new car materialises I will probably get a fairly high end Samsung, or a new iPhone, so checking out the audio on these may well be of interest within a few weeks or maybe months, depending on how deliveries work out.

Sadly my Toyota hybrid car suffered terminal "disease" - its batteries failed completely, and would be uneconomic to replace, so I'm looking for a new car. If I need a new phone to operate the car, which seems possible, then the discussion here may help me to decide on options.

[richardfinegold]

Thanks for all the helpful contributions.

I've been thinking about the audio side of smartphones because my existing phone (the 1st generation Moto G) is 6 years old, of limited capacity, and I've decided it's about time I replaced the thing.

Most of my listening to music, whether ripped CDs, downloads, BBC iPlayer, Qobuz or Spotify, is via the Squeezebox/LMS system which, miraculously, is still going strong (and supported) 8 years after Logitech abandoned it. As part of that system I can use a mobile phone as a Squeezebox player - enabling me to access all my music where ever I am in the house, as long as I am within WiFi range.

As I have two very decent headphones - the Sony WH-1000XM3 Noise Cancelling (wired/Bluetooth) and a pair of Sennheiser HD600 (wired) - I thought I might as well get a phone that is reasonably good in the audio department.

After an awful lot of dithering I've ordered a LG V50, partly just to get the matter sorted. I feel a bit embarrassed about the purchase and fear that I might live to regret it because (a) it's too damned big, (b) it costs far more than I would normally think of spending on a phone, (c) it's last years model (so what?) and to cap it all off (c) I ordered it from a European supplier so it might never arrive anyway.

That's my phone. It did cost a lot, and it is big...make sure that you get one of those protective cases because no pants pocket can hold it. And the camera drive me nuts--I think there are 9 of them and I never learned how to use them.
On the plus side-a fabulous music player, an amazing screen, and it's fast. Downloads are virtually instantaneous. Unlike Apple, updates are infrequent, and everything works after an update. You will be happy.
To answer an earlier question that was posed, I don't think the battery can be swapped, but I really don't know.